quote:

Originally posted by VDub I'm just saying it would be a good one to build...

definitely a good place to start

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quote:

Originally posted by FunkyCrew my initial point was - why expand an already fairly developed side of town transit-wise, when we have so many gaps in transit in the Northern part of the GTA?

I thought it was made pretty clear in the article no?

quote:

The regional transportation plan is a “living document” that the board has the power to amend, he said, adding any consideration of the DRL would likely occur while figuring out how to take pressure off the already overcrowded Yonge line. “I think we need to do this one step at a time,” said Mr. Fenn. “We need to know what the capacity limitations might conceivably be and … what capacity might be created in the existing system, what role GO Transit might play and other system improvements before we start looking at grander considerations.” The Downtown Relief Line’s fate may indeed be wrapped up in expansion of the Yonge line, as unpopular an idea as that is at Toronto City Hall. The city wants assurances that packed trains full of York residents don’t overwhelm Toronto residents on their own subway platforms, and the potential solutions, including a third platform at Yonge-Bloor Station, would be expensive and disruptive. Toronto is now banking that the DLR will pose an attractive alternative. “It may make sense to actually begin the Downtown Relief Line earlier than expected to deal with the capacity issues” said Mr. Giambrone, “especially if you find the cost of dealing with capacity issues on the Yonge line to be over a billion dollars and the cost of the Downtown Relief Line to be $2.1-billion.”

I get on the subway at Sheppard heading southbound on Yonge and I can tell you that nearly half the train is already full during morning rush hour on a regular basis. By the time we get to Bloor it is ram packed with passengers. By adding additional passengers from York region north of Finch would further plague an already bad situation without the additional capacity. The DRL would in essence help to reduce the passenger load on the Yonge line by having passengers coming from East and West of the GTA heading downtown divert at Dundas West and Pape respectively. That would essentially free up some capacity on the Yonge line to accommodate York passengers.

I pretty much see the DRL as a dependency for any future expansion outside of the 416. We're already going to start seeing a major influx of passengers on the Yonge-University-Spadina line once that Spadina extension is built out to Vaughan, mark my word!

The DRL is a win for York as much as it is for Toronto since it provides the needed foundation for being able to further expand the existing system beyond the city limits. I encourage everyone to join the FB group and support the cause through your local councilors!

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Originally posted by dEsidEL I get on the subway at Sheppard heading southbound on Yonge and I can tell you that nearly half the train is already full during morning rush hour on a regular basis. By the time we get to Bloor it is ram packed with passengers. By adding additional passengers from York region north of Finch would further plague an already bad situation without the additional capacity. The DRL would in essence help to reduce the passenger load on the Yonge line by having passengers coming from East and West of the GTA heading downtown divert at Dundas West and Pape respectively. That would essentially free up some capacity on the Yonge line to accommodate York passengers.

I don't ride the Bloor line much, but I'm frequently on the Yonge line, so I guess I see your point how the DLR will ease the Bloor riders off. I don't agree with your point regarding York region riders - so you would rather not have them using the subway, because this would create overcrowding? So screw them, and let them use YRT/Go train instead?

___________________
Just surrender yourself to the rhythm,
With your hands up in the sky,
Feel the energy deep inside your system
And leave this world behind...

quote:

Originally posted by FunkyCrew I don't ride the Bloor line much, but I'm frequently on the Yonge line, so I guess I see your point how the DLR will ease the Bloor riders off. I don't agree with your point regarding York region riders - so you would rather not have them using the subway, because this would create overcrowding? So screw them, and let them use YRT/Go train instead?

Not at all, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm pointing out is that they have to ensure that there is sufficient capacity on the Yonge line before they begin to build it out further north. The fact that the train is already half full by the time it reaches Sheppard is a glaring problem. Can you imagine it picking up passengers at 6 new stations beginning at Richmond Hill Centre before it gets to say Eglinton? Good luck trying to find a seat, let alone getting into the train before you're even halfway downtown.

Now this isn't to say that York residents don't already take the subway downtown by heading to Finch station aboard YRT buses or other means. But the fact is that by putting a subway line further north along the Yonge corridor will undoubtedly increase ridership by attracting passengers who may have otherwise used alternate modes of transport such as cars or GO transit. This is definitely the end goal of course, but it cannot be reasonably done without first ensuring that capacity issues are addressed so that all passengers, Toronto, York or otherwise can reasonably expect to be able to ride the subway during peak times. No one wants to wait for 2-3 trains to go by before they get on and I can assure you that's already the case when I board the train at Bloor station to head home when working downtown.

Besides, I work in Markham at the moment and I take the subway up to Finch station on occasion so by having the line extended past Steeles would personally benefit me directly. I'm not arguing against the idea, I just want it to be properly thought out first, and that includes serious consideration for the DRL prior to any Yonge line extension.

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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Ppl have been talking about a steeles line for years... I'm just saying it would be a good one to build...

any links to official news about it?

from what i know there was never an actually proposal or even a study done for a line on steeles. although there were some options thrown out by the public about connecting the spadina line with the yonge line across the top part of the city but that never materialized into anything.

a steeles subway just isn't a priority. although i have been reading that steeles may become an LRT in the future.

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No links Smucky...

I know I heard from inside sources that it was discussed within the company...

Ppl used to just talk about how it would be great if instead of the sheppard line, they did one on steeles...

Don't you think???

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

all these ideas are great, but without sustainable funding and the commitment by all levels of government they'll never see the light of day..

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew I live downtown, what is this OURS and YOURS? arrogant much? I've taken Queen/King/Dundas streetcars in the past 6 months, and I can say they're definitely faster then most of the buses up north and the wait times are shorter my initial point was - why expand an already fairly developed side of town transit-wise, when we have so many gaps in transit in the Northern part of the GTA?

I'd have to agree with you. I have taken the downtown routes a lot. Yes, some are slow, and crowded, but the street car works fairly well so far.

The best plan would be to increase convience for people who are traveling a much greater distance to the core, or anywhere in toronto. OK, your 15 minute trip took 25 minutes because of traffic. But when you are traveling from much further away, and your hour trip is now an hour and a half, or longer, it is pretty bad. Not to mention you have fewer options, and more people travel from further distances.

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Ppl have been talking about a steeles line for years... I'm just saying it would be a good one to build...

The Steeles like is a good idea, but it would have to be LRT. Also, considering that Markham/Vaughan/Toronto cannot even agree to pay for the road, there is no hope for a line.


I see the re-introduction of this plan as a way for the TTC to try and take further control over the funding. They are already getting in MetroLynx's way by trying to lay claim to all the funding and planning authority. This money is coming from the provincial and federal governments for the entire GTA, and not just downtown. It needs to be planned by a body which has the entire area at heart.

quote:

Originally posted by VDub No links Smucky... I know I heard from inside sources that it was discussed within the company... Ppl used to just talk about how it would be great if instead of the sheppard line, they did one on steeles... Don't you think???

unfortuently, the sheppard line was cut short by the provincial gov't at the time. it would've been a much more used line right now if it extended all the way to scarborough like it was intended in the beginning.

however, there is reasonable talk about extending the sheppard line west to connect at downsview, mainly for the purpose of train storage. but i think that's looking less likely as i've read that i won't really be necessary if the tail tracks at RHC will be long enough to hold a couple of trains for the start of service each day.

dEsidEL, that's definitely the bottom line. however, unfortuently, the city and the ttc stabed itself in the foot awhile ago by not including the DRL as one of the projects for move ontario 2020. instead, they included the transit city lines even though they knew that york region was calling for and strongly advocating for a subway line along yonge. the ttc didn't even want to talk about the DRL until 2018. now they've done a 180 and are practically begging metrolinx to include it in the 15 year plan instead of the 30 year plan as originally planned out.

hopefully there will be enough evidence presented to metrolinx about overcrowding issues on the system so that they can bump it up and prioritize this line. unfortuently, as of right now, the official word is that metrolinx will be reviewing it's plan in 2-3 years at which point they may bump the DRL to the 15 year plan.

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If anyone wants to share their clubbing/nightlife pics go to Toronto Nightlife
"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.” -Alex Steffen

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky dEsidEL, that's definitely the bottom line. however, unfortuently, the city and the ttc stabed itself in the foot awhile ago by not including the DRL as one of the projects for move ontario 2020. instead, they included the transit city lines even though they knew that york region was calling for and strongly advocating for a subway line along yonge. the ttc didn't even want to talk about the DRL until 2018. now they've done a 180 and are practically begging metrolinx to include it in the 15 year plan instead of the 30 year plan as originally planned out. hopefully there will be enough evidence presented to metrolinx about overcrowding issues on the system so that they can bump it up and prioritize this line. unfortuently, as of right now, the official word is that metrolinx will be reviewing it's plan in 2-3 years at which point they may bump the DRL to the 15 year plan.

me thinks as a result of the (unpopular to Toronto City Council) Yonge extension suddenly gaining traction. There seems to be a lot of politicking going on..

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quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL me thinks as a result of the (unpopular to Toronto City Council) Yonge extension suddenly gaining traction. There seems to be a lot of politicking going on..

Yup. That is the biggest problem. The needs are there, the funding is coming. It is dumb as councilors that are holding up the process.

*When* I move back to toronto, I will make sure to campaign against any old fart that is holding up transit plans.