I sued my landlord about 6 years ago to get my $2k deposit back, and won. I moved on to a place and he neglected to tell me that a street trader was using our doorstep as his stand. The caused a serious inconvenience to ever get access to the property (and a fire risk etc.) We complained and he said well the trader has a lease for that space so we should move out he'd give us our money back.

To sum up, we had photos and evidence but he said we just suddenly moved one day and he had loss of rent (which was a lie too). The case was decided on the clause in the lease we highlighted to the judge that said we were meant to "quietly enjoy and possess the property". I stated we could not "enjoy or possess under these circumstances" and the judge immediately ruled in our favor. The other thing was that it was our word against his, but we turned up smart, with evidence and were respectful at all times - the landlord turned up in a ripped shirt, kept interrupting and had no tangible evidence.

Even though it was in England, the same basic laws are common here.

So a few tips for your day in court. I know these are going to sound obvious but you'd be surprised.

Go smart - wear a tie if needed, but not so over the top that you feel uncomfortable.

Be polite and respectful to the judge at all times (your honor, sir/mam, "yes" not "yeah" etc), never get worked up or interrupt either the judge or the other party.

Not admitting guilt is excellent advice, often people think they have done something wrong when in fact they haven;t or the law isn't quite as strict as they think - don't ever get caught in a lie, but as long as it's your word against theirs, the above two tips will actually really help you.

Remember that small claims is more relaxed in the respect that the judge rules on common law and a lot of common sense, as they see fit. So they want to hear a story that makes sense - and you need to be able to tell it well, from start to finish.

When telling your side, offer specific evidence (as you go) that supports your testimony. This makes it easy for the judge to make a decision and get a picture of what really happened.

State the reason they left clearly and how long they were tenants - their defense sounds like they're trying to paint you as bad landlords, but this is easily refuted by the fact they stayed there for 5 years, and that you put money in to the property while they were there and for future tenants - you wouldn't do that if it were really the case that you are bad landlords but you do actually have to make that point obvious to the judge.

Do you have proof that they coudn't afford it? (even if they said that to you in person or on the phone?) Did they ever pay late or short?

Be able to answer a question of "when did you send {insert document name here] to the tenant" with an exact date - being vague will make you sound like a bullshitter.

Don't sweat it too much about the hot water etc. - shit happens to old rented properties, and you fixed it to the satisfaction of the tenants - nothing is ever perfect all the time and as long as you followed through the judge will understand it.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Well i am glad that both of you guys won, but you guys were in the right, unlike our x tenants...

quote:

Originally posted by mar46017 btw: You must differentiate between normal wear and tear and waste. The tenant is not liable for normal wear and tear. So make sure you use those words that the way they left it was more than normal "wear and tear" Also talk about waste. A tenant has a duty not to commit waste. (you can sue them for making holes the walls etc) If they added any permanent fixture, they become part of the property. If they do remove the fixtures and cause damage as a result, that is also considered waste. Ameliorative waste is waste that actually increases the value of the property. (so you may not be able to claim anything in the case of ameliorative waste)

Yeah as far as "waste" there is a lot of it. There are a lot of holes in the walls and bad stains in the carpet (the carpet was replaced). It was not normal wear and tear it was just neglect and being lazy.

They did "patch up" the holes, but they were not done correctly. We had to go out and re do all the holes and on top of that add texture to the areas that were re done. They just went to home depot and bought some mud and slapped it on the holes to cover them up.

I mean does this even look right? This was there definition of patching holes LOL



Here are a few more examples of the place:







Clearly that isn't normal wear and tear...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Go smart - wear a tie if needed, but not so over the top that you feel uncomfortable. Be polite and respectful to the judge at all times (your honor, sir/mam, "yes" not "yeah" etc), never get worked up or interrupt either the judge or the other party. Not admitting guilt is excellent advice, often people think they have done something wrong when in fact they haven;t or the law isn't quite as strict as they think - don't ever get caught in a lie, but as long as it's your word against theirs, the above two tips will actually really help you. Remember that small claims is more relaxed in the respect that the judge rules on common law and a lot of common sense, as they see fit. So they want to hear a story that makes sense - and you need to be able to tell it well, from start to finish. When telling your side, offer specific evidence (as you go) that supports your testimony. This makes it easy for the judge to make a decision and get a picture of what really happened. State the reason they left clearly and how long they were tenants - their defense sounds like they're trying to paint you as bad landlords, but this is easily refuted by the fact they stayed there for 5 years, and that you put money in to the property while they were there and for future tenants - you wouldn't do that if it were really the case that you are bad landlords but you do actually have to make that point obvious to the judge. Do you have proof that they coudn't afford it? (even if they said that to you in person or on the phone?) Did they ever pay late or short? Be able to answer a question of "when did you send {insert document name here] to the tenant" with an exact date - being vague will make you sound like a bullshitter. Don't sweat it too much about the hot water etc. - shit happens to old rented properties, and you fixed it to the satisfaction of the tenants - nothing is ever perfect all the time and as long as you followed through the judge will understand it. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks for the advice...

We have receipts that show the 50 dollar late fee being imposed because they did not have the rent ready on time. We have MANY months that show they were late. They paid late all the time, and a handful of times only gave a part of the rent and then gave the rest within a week or sometimes 2. We do not have any proof for that though, just the 50 dollar late fee on the receipt.

As far as a date, and i need to go back through all the paper work and come up with a date that makes sense with all the dates.

I am still getting everything together right now, i should be ready in about a week. I am going to go over everything before me and my moms go into court and defend our selves. I want to have every angle covered because its complete bullshit on their part for suing us...

I am actually signing a lease tomorrow, but prior to that i did take a blank copy of the acutal lease, its very thorough. It covers alot of the issues that you had. Would you like a copy for the future?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN To sum up, we had photos and evidence but he said we just suddenly moved one day and he had loss of rent (which was a lie too). The case was decided on the clause in the lease we highlighted to the judge that said we were meant to "quietly enjoy and possess the property". I stated we could not "enjoy or possess under these circumstances" and the judge immediately ruled in our favor.

You used good words! All residential leases contain implied warranties of habitability and an implied covenant of quiet enjoyment.

Btw: Thanks for the Landlord/Tenant review, I'm taking the bar on Tuesday. Wish me luck!

___________________
www.rabbanlaw.com

quote:

Originally posted by Orbital32 I am actually signing a lease tomorrow, but prior to that i did take a blank copy of the acutal lease, its very thorough. It covers alot of the issues that you had. Would you like a copy for the future?

I have a few different types, but another one wouldn't hurt

quote:

Originally posted by mar46017 You used good words! All residential leases contain implied warranties of habitability and an implied covenant of quiet enjoyment. Btw: Thanks for the Landlord/Tenant review, I'm taking the bar on Tuesday. Wish me luck!

Haha

Good luck, and thanks for the advice...

Both of us came up on the deal

quote:

Originally posted by Nerologic Well i am glad that both of you guys won, but you guys were in the right, unlike our x tenants... Yeah as far as "waste" there is a lot of it. There are a lot of holes in the walls and bad stains in the carpet (the carpet was replaced). It was not normal wear and tear it was just neglect and being lazy. They did "patch up" the holes, but they were not done correctly. We had to go out and re do all the holes and on top of that add texture to the areas that were re done. They just went to home depot and bought some mud and slapped it on the holes to cover them up. I mean does this even look right? This was there definition of patching holes LOL Here are a few more examples of the place: Clearly that isn't normal wear and tear... Thanks for the advice... We have receipts that show the 50 dollar late fee being imposed because they did not have the rent ready on time. We have MANY months that show they were late. They paid late all the time, and a handful of times only gave a part of the rent and then gave the rest within a week or sometimes 2. We do not have any proof for that though, just the 50 dollar late fee on the receipt. As far as a date, and i need to go back through all the paper work and come up with a date that makes sense with all the dates. I am still getting everything together right now, i should be ready in about a week. I am going to go over everything before me and my moms go into court and defend our selves. I want to have every angle covered because its complete bullshit on their part for suing us...

You're looking good - seriously, the carpet alone is enough to show they did not look after the property - it was un-rentable with that carpet so tale the receipt for the new one. Then you have the broken drawer and make sure you emphasize how bad their "fixes" were and that you are out of pocket to refix them.

The fact they paid late so many times is also great contributing evidence that they were bad tenants, and basically even though you don't have evidence for some it, there is enough to make the judge believe you are telling the truth about it.

Mikey, you're totally right about that but I could prove that a specific covenant had been broken, and that's where the case was closed according to the judge.

Countersue those ******s.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Countersue those ******s.

Yeah that's what someone else suggested today. I am going to talk to a small claims adviser tomorrow.

Also Mikey...

What are the 3 different kind of trust funds/deeds to a property?

To like switch owners all of a sudden in case of an emergency?

The person i met up with that today mentioned that, do you have any idea of what i am talking about?

EDIT: seems like its a living trust, i need to figure that out now...

Last edited by Nerologic on Feb-20-2009 at 02:20

quote:

Originally posted by Nerologic Yeah that's what someone else suggested today. I am going to talk to a small claims adviser tomorrow. Also Mikey... What are the 3 different kind of trust funds/deeds to a property? To like switch owners all of a sudden in case of an emergency? The person i met up with that today mentioned that, do you have any idea of what i am talking about? EDIT: seems like its a living trust, i need to figure that out now...

A trust is a fiduciary relationship where a trustee holds legal title for an ascertainable beneficiary.

A valid trust must contain 1) Settlor 2) Trust "res" or property 3) Ascertainable beneficiaries 4) Trustee 5) Valid Purpose (nothing illegal or against public policy)

Living Trust or "inter-vivos" trusts are usally made to avoid probate. (a will goes into probate...or if there is no will by intestate succession)

Intestate succession depends if the dececeased leaves a spouse or issue (children)

If there is a spouse and 1 child. Spouse gets all Community Property and 1/2 separate property. If there is a spouse and two or more children - Spouse get 1/3 and children (2 or more) get 2/3. No spouse or children. Goes to parents. No parents, goes to issue of parents. No issue of parents goes to issue of predeceased spouse. If none, next of kin. If none - escheats to the state.

Above is more review for me.

You mentioned a deed. There is a general warranty did that gives 6 coventant...3 present and 3 future. Basically saying, you own the place, its free of encumbrances, it is marketable and others that go to future owners.

A quitclaim deed on the other hand gives up whatever interest you have (no warranties)

Lemme know if you wanna know more about a trust. A trustee has many duties. Duty of care, loyalty, earmarking assets, accounting, prudent investing, no self-dealing.

There are other types of trust like a spendthrift trust, which shields creditors. For example you want to leave money to your child, but only want the money to be used for education or necessities of life. (but you as a grantor can't use this to shield creditors.)

A discretionary trust leaves the discretion to the trustee for whatever he/she feels like paying out.

Other non-sense trusts are
Totten trust - more common on the east coast. This is when you put a child's name on a bank account, but you owe no duties to your child and can take from the account as you please.
or
Honorary trust - when one leaves money for a dog or cat. Its up to the trustee's "honor" whether he uses the funds for that purpose.

Income beneficiaries - take income that comes as a result of the trust.

Principal beneficiaries - take what is left after the trust purpose is fulfilled.

I hope I get a question on trusts but it is the least tested subject. I know 22 subjects...but only 6 will be tested on the essays. 5 on the muliple choice. Day 1 start with a 3 hour essay consisting of 3 quesiton. 1 hour break. Then a 3 hour performance exam. Day 2 3 hours of 100 multiple choice. 1 hours break. Another 3 hours of multiple choice. Day 3 is like day 1.

I will be one happy guy Thursday night! Just found out today I have good moral character (Basically the background check)

Here's a good read on living trusts

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?sImagePath=Living_Trust.gif&sCategoryPath=/Home/Public%20Services/Consumer%20Information/Pamphlets&sHeading=Living%20Trust&sFileType=HTML&sCatHtmlPath=html/Pamphlets_Living-Trust.html

___________________
www.rabbanlaw.com

Last edited by mar46017 on Feb-20-2009 at 06:57

quote:

Originally posted by mar46017 I hope I get a question on trusts but it is the least tested subject. I know 22 subjects...but only 6 will be tested on the essays. 5 on the muliple choice. Day 1 start with a 3 hour essay consisting of 3 quesiton. 1 hour break. Then a 3 hour performance exam. Day 2 3 hours of 100 multiple choice. 1 hours break. Another 3 hours of multiple choice. Day 3 is like day 1. I will be one happy guy Thursday night! Just found out today I have good moral character (Basically the background check) Here's a good read on living trusts http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calb...ving-Trust.html

Thanks again man. I am looking into legal trusts, we might just make it through "legalzoom" since its pretty cheap and effective. I just need to figure out some things out first before we do the trust.

And good luck man, i know the bar is pretty hard so good luck with that.

Going tomorrow to court, we actually filed a defendants claim and are suing them for 2400 since we spent almost 4g's into the place.

Here is a run down of everything that i am taking and going to talk about:

We got recommendations from all our current tenants that we are good landlords and fix everything immediately.

We are going to mention its our first time in court.

Show pictures and list all the things that didn't work when they left, dish washer stove etc...

Show pictures of the place, i printed out a good 20 of them.

Show over 3700 in receipts of labor and materials as proof of our claim.

Show the judge a copy of the "packet" that we sent out on the 25th of July 2008 that i guess never made it too them.

Explain to the judge that labor ($2000) to paint and prep all the walls was so expensive because the poorly patched holes needed to be redone.

And i think that's it.

Anyone have any last minutes suggestions?

will you be on judge judy or the red head mexican chick.. whats her name..

but from one fellow evo owner to another........ but from the pics, you win

___________________
Jaded Raver Union

"Because, even e-tards like you deserve better music." -