Excommunication is not a permanent punishment. I think it would be sobering enough to a truly devout believer that screwed up as big as a Priest molesting a kid for instance.

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Originally posted by Alex Excommunication is not a permanent punishment. I think it would be sobering enough to a truly devout believer that screwed up as big as a Priest molesting a kid for instance.

It's only not permanent if the person doesn't die prior to the excommunication being lifted. I agree that it sends a powerful message; however, I simply don't believe the church should deny the sacraments to anyone who seeks them.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Well being Catholic of course I agree that everyone can change for the better and deserve the chance, but there just doesn't seem to be a suitable punishment for these priests.

I suppose the loss of ordination would be sufficient, it would completely limit their ability to function in society, which is a bit cruel but it's better they pay the price here I suppose.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think its far more likely that being religious just makes you wanna fuck kids

Sir, you've got it just entirely the other way around. Here is a basic summary of the Catholic church:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

(I post this solely for the purposes of humour! I am sure that there are many, many Catholics who are good people, just like those in any other religious or social group.)

BTW: how do people post Youtube videos directly in-line with their post, without having to use a hyperlink? I'm stumped!

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Originally posted by Alex there just doesn't seem to be a suitable punishment for these priests.

well, i would have thought a catholic would be subject to the most awesome and eternal punishment the universe has ever known?

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why does the washing machine get so much credit while the dish washer is being ignored? I think the vacuum is feeling left out as well.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 why does the washing machine get so much credit while the dish washer is being ignored? I think the vacuum is feeling left out as well.

Very funny.

I hope you're being sarcastic

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Too bad this sect isn't going to call it quits over the fact that its founder was a serious offender. Strong connections with the Pope, eh? Check this out. It is pretty clear people knew he was guilty of the allegations yet the sect people remained quiet and allowed so many innocent boys to be abused like that. Disgusting!!!

I cant believe this scumbag managed to escape justice:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7975155.stm

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Vatican to probe Catholic order Marcial Maciel. Photo: 2005 Father Maciel founded the order in 1941 Pope Benedict XVI has ordered a probe into the Legionaries of Christ, after the conservative order revealed its late founder had fathered a child. The Vatican said a team of priests would carry out the investigation to help the Mexican order to deal with its problems with "truth and transparency". In February, the order said its founder Marcial Maciel, who died in 2008, had fathered a daughter with a mistress. The Vatican disciplined Father Maciel in 2006 over sexual abuse allegations. Father Maciel was banned from exercising his ministry in public and told to retire to a life of prayer and penitence, following allegations that he sexually abused about 30 boys and young men over a period of 30 years. The priest - who founded the conservative order in 1941 - had always denied any wrongdoing. He died in January 2008 at the age of 87. Consternation The investigation into the Legionaries of Christ was announced in a letter by the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone. The letter said the pontiff had decided to intervene "so that with truth and transparency, in a climate of fraternal and constructive dialogue, you will overcome the present difficulties". The Vatican said that its investigators would visit all the institutions run by the Legionaries of Christ. It was not until after Father Maciel's death that his secret life was revealed. In February, the order admitted that he had kept a mistress and fathered a daughter who was now in her 20s. The disclosure caused consternation among the priests and laymen who are members of his religious congregation. They all take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. Father Maciel was close to the late Pope John Paul II. The Legionaries of Christ order has about 600 priests and 2,500 seminarians, and says it has some 65,000 members around the world.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Yikes. Thats a pretty senior official implicated ... THREE different women, THREE kids. Holly cow! Whats even better - his reaction and response to it all. Besides, he lied through the election, when he was faced with the initial allegation of the first child. NOTE: he fathered the child when he was a Bishop. Hello - where's the damn excommunication??? Fockers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8017370.stm

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Sex row Paraguay leader to stay Paraguayan President Fernando Lugo says he will not resign over claims by three women that he fathered children with them while he was a Catholic priest. Mr Lugo said in a televised address that he would see his mandate through to 2013 regardless of "rumours of instability and conspiracy". He asked for forgiveness from anyone who was offended by the revelations. Opposition politicians have seized on the controversy to undermine Mr Lugo, who ran on a campaign of honesty. Released from vows "It was not my intention to offend anyone," Mr Lugo said in his televised news conference, after cancelling what was regarded as an important trip to Washington due to start on Friday. Viviana Carrillo Mr Lugo admits having a son with Viviana Carrilllo while he was a bishop "I don't hesitate to ask for forgiveness in recognising that I failed the church, the country, the citizens, those who put their trust in me," he said. Mr Lugo came to power last August, ousting the right-wing Colorado party that had governed Paraguay for six decades. The Pope only released him from his vows of chastity last July, two years after Mr Lugo renounced the priesthood. This month, three women have come forward claiming that the former Roman Catholic bishop is the father of their children. Mr Lugo, 57, acknowledges a two-year-old boy born to a former parishioner as his own, but has not commented on the paternity of the others, a 14-month-old boy and a 6-year-old boy. 'Lost credibility' Calling the cases "private" during the news conference, he told journalists he could not keep answering questions without neglecting his duties as president. Your current personal situation has made you lose all credibility Senator Alfredo Jaeggli He said he would leave the matter in the hands of the justice system. A Paraguayan bishop, Rogelio Livieres, had called for Mr Lugo to resign. On Friday, a senator from a party currently aligned with Mr Lugo's also urged him to step down. "Your current personal situation has made you lose all credibility," Alfredo Jaeggli said in a letter to the presidency and congress. "I beg you to resign." Sitting alongside the president were a number of ministers who celebrated achievements from the government's first year in office, but critics claim the scandal continues to paralyse his administration, the BBC's Gary Duffy reports from Asuncion.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

I don't understand what you're trying to do apart from point out isolated incidents.

With over 1 billion members spread out across dozens of different countries, I don't think you can expect every single Priest/Nun/Monk/Deacon/Bishop/Arch-Bishop/Cardinal/Layman to be a saint. I don't think these incidents (while really bad) speak to the bigger picture at all. Why not point out all the good that Priests/Nuns/Monks/Deacons/Bishops/Arch-Bishops/Cardinals/Laymen accomplish on a daily basis, then we'll compare that to the bad and see what we've got?

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Originally posted by Alex I don't understand what you're trying to do apart from point out isolated incidents. With over 1 billion members spread out across dozens of different countries, I don't think you can expect every single Priest/Nun/Monk/Deacon/Bishop/Arch-Bishop/Cardinal/Layman to be a saint. I don't think these incidents (while really bad) speak to the bigger picture at all. Why not point out all the good that Priests/Nuns/Monks/Deacons/Bishops/Arch-Bishops/Cardinals/Laymen accomplish on a daily basis, then we'll compare that to the bad and see what we've got?

LOL, you got a point there. The cases are unrelated; indeed they don't make Catholic Church look all that evil. Perhaps my point is that Catholic Church need to be reformed / to get with the times. Shit like that (I mentioned) is what is weakening it. I am not a Catholic Church hater, I think we need it to have a balance in the world to counter Islam, but it needs to have a strong and positive image. And it is lacking it.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture