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Originally posted by skizzell and that is what's wrong with the consumption of food. food scientists who make things taste good using chemicals. you must be a fan of trans fats too, eh?

Ok, fine, let me rephrase that.

I'm all for it as long as it tastes fine and doesn't contain things that are horribly unhealthy (besides normal stuff that is in regular meat). I mean like if they could just grow a chicken breast by itself or something like that. It should be possible to do, and if they can pull it off, why not?

I'm ok with "smeat" in principle as well, but obviously not if it's actually really bad for people to eat.

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I am standing strong against this fallacy! I personally prefer to slice my dinner portion straight from the live animal itself. It pleases me to to no end when I see abstract fear in the eyes of my future meal as I wield sharp metal cutting tools. It's truly a magnificent life here at the top of the food chain.

In the worlds of the venerable Denis Leary, "Bring me a live cow! I'll carve off what I want and ride the rest home!"

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Originally posted by Sadface Ok, fine, let me rephrase that. I'm all for it as long as it tastes fine and doesn't contain things that are horribly unhealthy (besides normal stuff that is in regular meat).

It contains the process of using fossil fuels to keep the meat growing in the lab, which is horribly unsustainable. It *might* be ok if the labs used 100% renewable energy to power their 'farm', but even then, there is something terribly wrong with our food chain if we have to result to doing this to consume 'meat'.

Buy locally grown, organic food if you can. Nothing will ever compete to the health and taste of a grass fed, respectfully grown specimen on a poly-cultured farm harvesting the natural energy of the sun.

just cover it with some Tapatio Hot Sauce and I'm set!!!!

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Originally posted by skizzell It contains the process of using fossil fuels to keep the meat growing in the lab, which is horribly unsustainable. It *might* be ok if the labs used 100% renewable energy to power their 'farm', but even then, there is something terribly wrong with our food chain if we have to result to doing this to consume 'meat'. Buy locally grown, organic food if you can. Nothing will ever compete to the health and taste of a grass fed, respectfully grown specimen on a poly-cultured farm harvesting the natural energy of the sun.

Hippy!

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Listening to trance music turns you into a fucking idiot.

Space Dolphins EP on Beatport
January 2011 Promo - Deep Tech House
Viva La Tech Guest Mix (September 2010) - Tech House/Techno

quote:

Originally posted by skizzell It contains the process of using fossil fuels to keep the meat growing in the lab, which is horribly unsustainable. It *might* be ok if the labs used 100% renewable energy to power their 'farm', but even then, there is something terribly wrong with our food chain if we have to result to doing this to consume 'meat'. Buy locally grown, organic food if you can. Nothing will ever compete to the health and taste of a grass fed, respectfully grown specimen on a poly-cultured farm harvesting the natural energy of the sun.

Sure, it will probably be less environmentally friendly than nice, happy, locally grown meat, but the VAST majority of meat consumed in the US is not grown in such an environmentally friendly fashion. So much fossil fuel is wasted in the current meat industry (trucking food to them, trucking them to the butcher, trucking the meat to the various stores ,etc) that your beef consumption has a more significant impact on your personal carbon footprint than what car you drive (look it up). That doesn't even take into account the ridiculous damage that water runoff from these monster meat farms does to the surrounding environment.

When compared to our current meat industry, growing meat in a lab which could be much more efficient with nutrients (don't have to grow a whole cow, just the parts we want), less dependent on trucks for transportation, and have little to no waste entering the environment actually sounds pretty good. It's way too early to speculate on the fossil fuel use for electricity on these plants (I won't call them farms), but I think its a fair assumption that when their use becomes widespread, renewable energy will be plentiful as well.

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Originally posted by Brian Scott Hippy!

Hardly. I support corporate America. What I don't like is how we industrialize our food. We have the wrong scope about it. Our food travels to our plates from all over the world for as cheap (commodity speaking, but not health costs) as possible. We don't even care about what we're putting into our bodies. That's downright scary.

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Originally posted by skizzell Hardly. I support corporate America. What I don't like is how we industrialize our food. We have the wrong scope about it. Our food travels to our plates from all over the world for as cheap (commodity speaking, but not health costs) as possible. We don't even care about what we're putting into our bodies. That's downright scary.

I do agree. I was just looking for the opportune time to call somebody a hippy

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Space Dolphins EP on Beatport
January 2011 Promo - Deep Tech House
Viva La Tech Guest Mix (September 2010) - Tech House/Techno

quote:

Originally posted by Sadface Sure, it will probably be less environmentally friendly than nice, happy, locally grown meat, but the VAST majority of meat consumed in the US is not grown in such an environmentally friendly fashion. So much fossil fuel is wasted in the current meat industry (trucking food to them, trucking them to the butcher, trucking the meat to the various stores ,etc) that your beef consumption has a more significant impact on your personal carbon footprint than what car you drive (look it up). That doesn't even take into account the ridiculous damage that water runoff from these monster meat farms does to the surrounding environment. When compared to our current meat industry, growing meat in a lab which could be much more efficient with nutrients (don't have to grow a whole cow, just the parts we want), less dependent on trucks for transportation, and have little to no waste entering the environment actually sounds pretty good. It's way too early to speculate on the fossil fuel use for electricity on these plants (I won't call them farms), but I think its a fair assumption that when their use becomes widespread, renewable energy will be plentiful as well.

It's interesting that PETA endorses this plan. I'm not fully against it (when done right), but it still scares me. It's the furthest possible thing from natural. We need a farming revolution though, not this. We need people to take back the natural foods we once use to eat. People need to start caring about what they eat. Unfortunately, we live in fast food nation, so this is unlikely to occur.

And yes, I know plenty about the process of industrialized agriculture (The Omnivore's Dilemma is one of my favorite books). You also left out the fossil fuels used for fertilizers and the wastes associated with them (into water supplies and such). And yeah, of course I'm not a fan of our farm animals eating grade 2 corn instead of sun-fed grass. This is why I try to encourage that people buy locally and get to know their local farmers. There are more farmer's markets today than any other period in modern history. It's quite a task to eat right, but if you don't then you might as well enjoy your life with diabetes and cancers.

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Originally posted by skizzell It's interesting that PETA endorses this plan. I'm not fully against it (when done right), but it still scares me. It's the furthest possible thing from natural. We need a farming revolution though, not this. We need people to take back the natural foods we once use to eat. People need to start caring about what they eat. Unfortunately, we live in fast food nation, so this is unlikely to occur. And yes, I know plenty about the process of industrialized agriculture (The Omnivore's Dilemma is one of my favorite books). You also left out the fossil fuels used for fertilizers and the wastes associated with them (into water supplies and such). And yeah, of course I'm not a fan of our farm animals eating grade 2 corn instead of sun-fed grass. This is why I try to encourage that people buy locally and get to know their local farmers. There are more farmer's markets today than any other period in modern history. It's quite a task to eat right, but if you don't then you might as well enjoy your life with diabetes and cancers.

I just don't have any hangups about eating "unnatural" foods at all. Ultimately, for me, nutritional content is the most important thing, with environmental impacts being an important consideration as well.

I've heard about Omnivore's Dilemma but never gotten around to reading it. I agree with everything you say about farmers markets and their benefits for the environment. I just recently graduated from school so I'm broke and living at home atm trying to get a job (things are looking good though!), so I can't exactly decide what food gets purchased, but I've resolved to get on it once I actually have a decent income of my own. We'll see what happens on that one I guess.

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Originally posted by Sadface I just don't have any hangups about eating "unnatural" foods at all. Ultimately, for me, nutritional content is the most important thing, with environmental impacts being an important consideration as well. I've heard about Omnivore's Dilemma but never gotten around to reading it. I agree with everything you say about farmers markets and their benefits for the environment. I just recently graduated from school so I'm broke and living at home atm trying to get a job (things are looking good though!), so I can't exactly decide what food gets purchased, but I've resolved to get on it once I actually have a decent income of my own. We'll see what happens on that one I guess.

Yeah, I hear ya about costs. The thing that people don't realize is that we used to spend a -lot- more on food back in the day than we do now. We used to spend 1/5th of our income on food before modern times. Now we spend just 1/10th. This is the least we've ever spent on food in the history of the world. We used to survive spending more, so it's important to budget more for better food. Sadly, we don't think this way because we are busy consuming in other areas that once did not exist (like a $100 cell phone bill). Sucks, doesn't it?

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Originally posted by skizzell Yeah, I hear ya about costs. The thing that people don't realize is that we used to spend a -lot- more on food back in the day than we do now. We used to spend 1/5th of our income on food before modern times. Now we spend just 1/10th. This is the least we've ever spent on food in the history of the world. We used to survive spending more, so it's important to budget more for better food. Sadly, we don't think this way because we are busy consuming in other areas that once did not exist (like a $100 cell phone bill). Sucks, doesn't it?

Yeah, but at the same time I don't think its necessarily fair to be saying that everyone actually should be paying more for food. I'm sure plenty of people at or near the poverty line would disagree with you there. I mean, wouldn't the ideal situation be one in which everyone could eat (edit: well) for free?

I do think that cheap food has a place in society. What I would like to see is better public education on food, more inexpensive, healthy options for people, and more responsible farming/food production practices in general, especially by the big agribusinesses. Smaller local farms are a great option for now, but long term I do think we'll need the efficiency of larger organizations to adequately feed everyone. We just have to try to get them to do it properly.

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