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Originally posted by DJ_Bod I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, Napster is what got me interested into what exactly "trance" was. Cuz I liked electronic music, and I just typed in "techno" into Napster. The thing I happened to download was a set called "DJ Tiesto - Live at Magik VI Amsterdam" This totally blew my mind. So I investigated it more and more. And thats what really got me into the whole electronic scene. I am glad for MP3s because its opens up the door to music that I never would have otherwise. Bah, That makes no sense, but I alreadyt yped it all, so I'm gonna post it. LOL

It makes perfect sense. and Magick 6 is the best set EVER, and i have listened to hundreds if not thousands of sets. it's the culmination of the trance genre.

anyway.. onto my thought collecting.

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Originally posted by Taz I'd like to know how many of you check out the amateur producers' forum here. Yes, I hear you, "It's all newbie crap!!" but anywhere you go, 90% of what you find is crap and 10% is PURE GOLD. Sometimes the 10% is right in your face, sometimes you have to look long and hard for it. If I'm not mistaken it was MP3.com that helped break PPK and Astral Projection big. Even as bad as dot-con are, they're a decent resource and they're going to hang around - they settled all their lawsuits (F**K YOU DEBBIE!!)

You are absolutely right when insuniating that I am a hypocrite. I never check out the amateurs section anymore. Guess I bumped into the wrong 90% the first times. Trouble is, I need to listen to a track all the way through in order to judge whether it is good or not. Currently I have some 140 hours of unheard mp3s on my playlist, of which only 2 or 3 will survive two testlistens. Why then, you might aks, don't I download amateur stuff instead - well, it is probably because the 138 hours of anonymous music in my playlist isn't bad, it is just not good. When I listen to the bad part of amateur music it is not only "not good", it's downright annoying. Thus, the 140 hours of listening will be much more of a pain, than the simple absence of good music.

I once read an interview with Mauro Picotto, in which he said that it took him some days to remix a track, and a lot longer to create one from the bottom up. When I listen to amateur music I get a feeling that most of it is made in a night or two. Even "famous" amateurs such as Raymond Wave, trance[]control, PPK and Astral Projection, has yet to impress me. But, I'm open to give a testlisten to any track you might suggest to me, that can be found in the amateur-section - I hope there *are* some gold there

The 'standardization'* of the MP3 format has made things portable and more accessable then ever.
This 'portability' of music has taken RIAA, the producers and distributors from a stranglehold situation to literally sand in their hands and they don't know what to do.
They strike at everything in hopes of stamping out a wildfire that's already out of their control.
They no longer hold all the cards and ironically enough, it's their own customer base driving the boat instead of them at the rudder.
They have to do something fast or slowly watch their coffers dry up, year after year.
People like the idea of not being force fed what the record companies think is 'good' music.

Eletronics manufacurers have already succumed to the will of the people and after a few failed attempts at a some proprietary music formats in software and hardware; have had to accept MP3 as the de facto standard.

In an ever growing Internet World, it's all about customization and convenience.
Some people like myself, shop off the internet for mundane things because I don't want to be bothered to go to the store and waste an hour or so to get my toothpaste or tomatoes when I can have it delivered to my door.
I found my car through a customized search engine in 30 min. when I needed to get one last time and didn't have to put up with sales people (much) and was armed to the gills regarding the car and their dealership propoganda.
MP3s are a great way to size an artist up. If they're new and I've never heard of them before, I'll download a few or more tracks to determine if I'm going to spend a couple of hours going to the music store and waste my money because of a few good tracks of a $17-$20-$30 CD.
If they're any good, of course I'll buy the CD and support the artist.
If they only have a few tracks I like, then I customize a CD and pull together a few stray tracks here and there to make a full one up with stuff I want.

Technology is all about smaller, faster, cheaper.
The MP3 format isn't going anywhere for a while, until another cleaner more compressable format comes along.
Remember the big 12" movie laser discs? Now down to CD size in the form of DVDs.
Record manufacturers were wiped out in less then 10 years when CDs showed up. Can you image the kind of hairpin turn the record distributors had to do when CDs first came out? Now they have to contend with MP3s. A compression that's too small to sell. This time round, they can't alter and manufacture what they can't control, bandwidth.
And that my friends is why they are in a loosing battle.
They don't control the nebulus internet pipes or the laws that govern them.
They're forced to comply or die.
I'm sure they won't go down easily and I'm not seeing too many brilliant strategies from them either other than to grab as many people on the way down as they can...

* It's really NOT a standard; just widely accepted

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Last edited by Fir3start3r on Jun-19-2002 at 09:04

I think that this hasnt got must to do with trance/dance music, with things like audiogalaxy shutting down.

But over the last few years record sales in commercial chart music has dropped massivley. This is becuase the average person can now download there favourite tune easily, and even somebody with little music or computer/internet knowledge can burn,a nd download the latest tracks. This means that people dont go out and buy the tracks anymore.

People will always want soemthign for nothing - fact

But with the trance scene and dance scene this has deffinatly helped the scene, it means that the latest tracks and livesets r heard all over the world, and developing huge demand for the djs to go and spin there, so this has helped the explosion in trance especially in the last few years.

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You are absolutely right when insuniating that I am a hypocrite.

No no NO!! I didn't mean what I wrote as in "aha! I caught you!", I really wanted to know how many people snoop around in the amateurs' section. I check things out in there if I see some sign that someone worked on a track for a long time after some wicked flash of inspiration.

Honestly, I remember the first time I checked out some songs on MP3.com back in '99. Even though they were all from different people, they all had this same elevator-music vibe to them, a gross uniform blandness. Then when I got into the message boards and dug further, some amazing shit cropped up! Stuff with soul, even though it wasn't perfect. Back to reality - that was a phase, and I don't make time for that now.

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Thus, the 140 hours of listening will be much more of a pain, than the simple absence of good music.

I can relate. So it's a question of filters - what makes something worth checking out in the first place?

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People will always want something for nothing - fact

You mean there's no such thing as guilt? No such thing as the common sense of knowing that unless someone gets paid there'll be no more from where that song came from? Nah. I think the more realistic problem is procrastination. "I'll buy the CD when I can afford it."

I agree with the idea that record companies took a wrong turn when they got rid of singles. They were cheap, they were cool, you could buy 'em with whatever you had left in your wallet that day.

I think my dad got it perfectly a little while ago when we were both getting into Napster. he told me that in a few years, the only way musicians are going to be able to make money is by doing shows and other live performances.

the way we're heading, that could be true

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idougan.com

Swamper, that was the best post on this subject i have ever seen.

I highly respect you for saying what you did, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for this site.

The future is indeed in question for electronic music.

Today, an announcement will be made by CARP about the royalty fees on webcasting.

check this site later on to find out what the fee will be:
http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates.html

as for the future of electronic music.. I am still thinking.
I will be back in a while.

Spot on, my thoughts exactly. Though I don't think there's much chance of the electronica scene dying in Europe just yet

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as for the future of electronic music.. I am still thinking.

We're waiting...

We are in the Time of Change. Technology evolves rapidly. A lot of old ideas/customs are revolted. Back in the days when JS Bach was alive, he would have never imagined people could print the score and sell them to make profits just a few decades after his death. To more recently, in the 50s just when elvis brought rockabily to smash hit, the adults were aware of the problems arising between the music and the youths and tried to fight back. We consider these are histories now as the same way our decendants would consider this moment of ours. People always look into what they can get from music/the scene only, blaming the incidents/entities that are against them as benefitted ones, making excuses and stories to cover the fact that they have the same ugly humanity as the other side. Just as we always sit in front of the monitor and critize the genres/artist/productions, have we ever tried to help rather than just plain talking? Maybe the era of war in fleshes are passing away. But people aren't perfect yet with all our minds/politics/theories/emotions/etc. are still in such regressive way. We demand revolutions in spiritual boundaries. There are always people, usually the benefitted ones of the moment, trying to fight against the new ideas. Just watch as time passes by... The ignorants will always be banished in the history. Live and fight on if you still insist to do... Decades/centuries later, winner will always be it and there will be shame in the names of the losers... RIAA...

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[size=1]. . .
Deep, Dark, Tech, Industrial & Psy TrancEaddict

Do the artists and makers of music really deserve to make the utterly digusting amounts of money they make? I'm not limiting this question to the genre of electronic dance music; the question includes the entire range of music.

A lot of major pop stars (by pop stars, I don't mean the pop genre, but any artist who isn't underground) make such amounts of money that it is an insult to the poor. A lot of it comes from promotions and advertisements, but the substantial part of it comes from their CD sales. Why are CDs priced in the $15-20 range? It's an arbitrary price which record companies set.

Just because there is a declining sale in CDs and albums on other media, it's no alarm for concern. The music industry is still making such a gross profit, from the artists to the producers. People are greedy, from those who download music for free and those who work in music companies. The people who work in music companies don't really have the right to complain if they are losing 10% of what they earn, but are still making a profit. Because that money didn't belong to them in the first place - the money came from loyal fans who paid for a disc. How do you compensate a fan when they don't like the disc? In the modern world, you can get a refund for a product you don't like. But you can't pay for half a CD and then justify by saying "I don't like half the songs".

To reiterate what Swamper and a few others said, the balance of power has shifted towards the fans. However, it's not an absolute shift. There are those who still prefer to buy their CDs. But in the end, everyone will get what they deserve, because not everyone who buys CDs enjoy 100% of the songs. So, the compensation is where those who didn't pay for the CD, but still have the songs; those who pay full price cover those who buy CDs.