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Originally posted by ExtremeWays Bullshit, there's moral relativism and there's pragmatism. Moral relativism is saying different standards apply to different people, cultures, times or places. Pragmatism says that sometimes we have to accept a lesser evil in order to do the most good for the most people. The Pope is looking in the face of one of the greatest tragedies of modern history--the AIDs epidemic in Africa, and refusing to accept the slightest concession to pragmatism that could save thousands of lives and the destruction of entire societies, in favor of wagging his finger at people for not abiding by catholic standards of sexual morality. That's inexcusable. He's also spreading LIES about the effectiveness of condoms in a part of the world where lack of education about sexual heath is LETHAL. The Pope's message is directly contributing to people's deaths, and for that I hope he gets gang-raped bareback by a dozen Algerians.

Now that's bullshit. First, if the pope were to say condoms are okay for people to use now because aids exists then that would be relativism, which really doesn't work for an organisation that is meant to be a moral authority. Second, what the pope is saying isn't simply don't use condoms; rather, he's saying don't be sexually active outside a monogamous relationship. While that may not be popular, he is right in that it would do more to prevent the spread of aids then distributing condoms. Third, if the church were to abandon theology for practicality then it would lose its religious authority. Fourth, the vatican is the largest provider of healthcare, in general, and aids treatment, in specific, in Africa (so the church is doing more to help the suffering then any group). Finally, people who choose to engage in permarital or extra marital sex clearly aren't listening to the pope regardless of whether or not they are using condoms; subsequently, this charge that he is contributing to the deaths of thousands is just folly.

Ps... Posting that from my blackberry sucked

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Mar-20-2009 at 11:04

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Nnow that's bullshit. First, if the pope were to say condoms are okay for people to use now because aids exists then that would be relativism, which really doesn't work for an organisation that is meant to be a moral authority. Second, what the pope is saying isn't simply don't use condoms; rather, he's saying don't be sexually active outside a monogamous relationship. While that may not be popular, he is right in that it would do more to prevent the spread of aids then distributing condoms. Third, if the church were to abandon theology for practicality then it would lose its religious authority. Fourth, the vatican is the largest provider of healthcare, in general, and aids testment in specific in Africa (so the church is doing more to help the suffering then any group). Finally, people who choose to engage in permarital or extra marital sex clearly aren't listening to the pope regardless of whether or not they are using condoms;subsequently, this charge that he is contributing to the deaths of thousands is just folly. Ps... Posting that from my blackberry sucked

well done

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I think the catholic church might still have Copernicus on their heretic list...

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sure the pope is out of touch...technically its part of his job.

He's just jealous.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z95n7j79Dw

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Originally posted by 7-4-7 He's just zealous.

fixed?

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I just thought I'd post the actual transcript of the actual exchange with a reporter that gave rise to all of this....

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Visseyrias: Holiness, among the many evils that scourge Africa, there is also and in particular that of the spread of AIDS. The position of the Catholic Church on the way to fight against this is often regarded as unrealistic and ineffective. Will you address this topic during the trip? Very Holy Father, would it be possible for you to answer this question in French? Benedict XVI: I would say the contrary. I think that the most efficient reality, the most present at the front of the struggle against AIDS, is precisely the Catholic Church, with her movements, with her various organizations. I am thinking of the Sant'Egidio Community that does so much, visibly and also invisibly, for the struggle against AIDS, of the Camilliani, of all the sisters who are at the disposition of the sick. I would say that this problem of AIDS can't be overcome only with publicity slogans. If there is not the soul, if the Africans are not helped, the scourge can't be resolved with the distribution of condoms: on the contrary, there is a risk of increasing the problem. The solution can only be found in a double commitment: first, a humanization of sexuality, that is, a spiritual and human renewal that brings with it a new way of behaving with one another; and second, a true friendship, also and above all for those who suffer, the willingness -- even with sacrifice and self-denial -- to be with the suffering. And these are the factors that help and that lead to visible progress. Because of this, I would say that this, our double effort to renew man interiorly, to give spiritual and human strength for correct behavior with regard to one's body and that of another, and this capacity to suffer with those who suffer, to remain present in situations of trial. It seems to me that this is the correct answer, and the Church does this and thus offers a very great and important contribution. We thank all those who do this.

Oddly, it doesn't sound nearly as simple as condoms = AIDS.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Oddly, it doesn't sound nearly as simple as condoms = AIDS.

who cares? its more fun laughing at Christians...it seems to be the fad of 2009.

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Anyone with half a wit of sense would not be putting their life only a plastic balloon millimeters away from a disease that is uncurable......

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Now that's bullshit. First, if the pope were to say condoms are okay for people to use now because aids exists then that would be relativism, which really doesn't work for an organisation that is meant to be a moral authority. Second, what the pope is saying isn't simply don't use condoms; rather, he's saying don't be sexually active outside a monogamous relationship. While that may not be popular, he is right in that it would do more to prevent the spread of aids then distributing condoms. Third, if the church were to abandon theology for practicality then it would lose its religious authority. Fourth, the vatican is the largest provider of healthcare, in general, and aids treatment, in specific, in Africa (so the church is doing more to help the suffering then any group). Finally, people who choose to engage in permarital or extra marital sex clearly aren't listening to the pope regardless of whether or not they are using condoms; subsequently, this charge that he is contributing to the deaths of thousands is just folly. Ps... Posting that from my blackberry sucked

As terrifying as the thought of getting into an online discussion about religion with a zealot is, I can't help but point out that your message simply does not acknowledge reality.

People are going to have sex with multiple partners. Whether the Pope thinks this is right or wrong has virtually nothing to do with this natural, built-in human behavior.

Denying this observable truth simply exacerbates the problem.

At least his naive perspective coupled with his massive (although declining) moral authority inspires discussion about the epidemic.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Now that's bullshit. First, if the pope were to say condoms are okay for people to use now because aids exists then that would be relativism, which really doesn't work for an organisation that is meant to be a moral authority. Second, what the pope is saying isn't simply don't use condoms; rather, he's saying don't be sexually active outside a monogamous relationship. While that may not be popular, he is right in that it would do more to prevent the spread of aids then distributing condoms. Third, if the church were to abandon theology for practicality then it would lose its religious authority. Fourth, the vatican is the largest provider of healthcare, in general, and aids treatment, in specific, in Africa (so the church is doing more to help the suffering then any group). Finally, people who choose to engage in permarital or extra marital sex clearly aren't listening to the pope regardless of whether or not they are using condoms; subsequently, this charge that he is contributing to the deaths of thousands is just folly. Ps... Posting that from my blackberry sucked

very well put.

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers As terrifying as the thought of getting into an online discussion about religion with a zealot is, I can't help but point out that your message simply does not acknowledge reality. People are going to have sex with multiple partners. Whether the Pope thinks this is right or wrong has virtually nothing to do with this natural, built-in human behavior. Denying this observable truth simply exacerbates the problem. At least his naive perspective coupled with his massive (although declining) moral authority inspires discussion about the epidemic.

thank you.

Ah, Catholics. Among the biggest hypocrites out there. I know many and am friends with many, but they know better than to talk about their fucked up beliefs and justifications around me.

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