quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Yeah, but speaking about music in terms of audiences and what are you supposed to do in a club/stadium and who goes and at what age etc. doesn't say anything about the music itself. So, house and techno is more mature because people shake their booty picking up girls in clubs whereas trance is "immature" because kids with glowsticks (or hippies for psy-trance) go there to jump and down? Who is the judge (and by what criteria/indexes?) of the "level of maturity"? Maybe its the other way round? Is the 17-year old who attends the Above and Beyond concert with the lasers and jumps up and down whislt on E really less mature than the average joe who, after a boring suppressed week at the office, shakes his body to r'n'b or house desperately trying to pick-up girls whilst wasting himself to cheap beer? And what about the music itself? I have listened to a lot different genres of music (outside EDM) and i have to admit that a lot of "over-done kitsch" music that teenagers listen to (e.g. some forms of metal etc.), is a lot more musical and closer to "classical" (in terms of complexity and musicianship) than the usually more "mature" forms of music (a very interesting phenomenon IMO which brings to mind the fact that all humans are born with perfect pitch but they lose it as they grow-up...except for some few). And we all know that a lot of (i would say most) "mature" people don't listen to classical and jazz, unfortunately... My point is, that people these days seem to judge musical genres more in terms of societal norms and cultural stereotypes rather than the music itself, like you did. And IMO this is deadly wrong. I also find the inter-genre EDM war stupid as fuck, at least if you consider that all forms of EDM are made on extremely similar procedures with similar types of knowledge. EDM seems to be truly the genre of fashion rather than substance. This type of thinking can make quality even more abundant.Nowadays, i think that most EDM fans search tracks in terms of awesome new-fashioned (or retro-fashioned) sounds (e.g. "Kompakt is on the rise", "german minimalism is the bomb, bringing a new electronic revolution" were some of the subjects of the DJ Mag from 1-2 years back) rather than good electronic tracks, e.g. good trance, techno, progressive, house, minimal techno whatever. People these days tend to confuse quality with what is "hot", "in", "trendy". I guess it always happened (with many genres as well) but i think that EDM got that type of thinking to the next level.

Exactly.

___________________
Nothing lasts, nothing lasts, everything is changing into something else. Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong, everything is on track...

You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Yeah, but speaking about music in terms of audiences and what are you supposed to do in a club/stadium and who goes and at what age etc. doesn't say anything about the music itself. So, house and techno is more mature because people shake their booty picking up girls in clubs whereas trance is "immature" because kids with glowsticks (or hippies for psy-trance) go there to jump and down? Who is the judge (and by what criteria/indexes?) of the "level of maturity"? Maybe its the other way round? Is the 17-year old who attends the Above and Beyond concert with the lasers and jumps up and down whislt on E really less mature than the average joe who, after a boring suppressed week at the office, shakes his body to r'n'b or house desperately trying to pick-up girls whilst wasting himself to cheap beer? And what about the music itself? I have listened to a lot different genres of music (outside EDM) and i have to admit that a lot of "over-done kitsch" music that teenagers listen to (e.g. some forms of metal etc.), is a lot more musical and closer to "classical" (in terms of complexity and musicianship) than the usually more "mature" forms of music (a very interesting phenomenon IMO which brings to mind the fact that all humans are born with perfect pitch but they lose it as they grow-up...except for some few). And we all know that a lot of (i would say most) "mature" people don't listen to classical and jazz, unfortunately... My point is, that people these days seem to judge musical genres more in terms of societal norms and cultural stereotypes rather than the music itself, like you did. And IMO this is deadly wrong. I also find the inter-genre EDM war stupid as fuck, at least if you consider that all forms of EDM are made on extremely similar procedures with similar types of knowledge. EDM seems to be truly the genre of fashion rather than substance. This type of thinking can make quality even more abundant.Nowadays, i think that most EDM fans search tracks in terms of awesome new-fashioned (or retro-fashioned) sounds (e.g. "Kompakt is on the rise", "german minimalism is the bomb, bringing a new electronic revolution" were some of the subjects of the DJ Mag from 1-2 years back) rather than good electronic tracks, e.g. good trance, techno, progressive, house, minimal techno whatever. People these days tend to confuse quality with what is "hot", "in", "trendy". I guess it always happened (with many genres as well) but i think that EDM got that type of thinking to the next level.

For a person posting on widely-known and respected EDM forum you kind of defend a taboo principle. Besides, that argument was kind of evasive to your general posts about music, probably because you were trying to show me a point and you, yourself just juged music from your own social perspectives which pretty much proves that even you once thought about it from where I'm seeing it.

To go back to the roots of the guys picking up chicks of the 17-year olds and deepen ourselves in social perspectives would be unnecessary. Maybe I didn't manage to forward my idea clearly enough and what I actually meant was that music where "people shake their booties" is the kind of music which gives the audience the chance to choose what they want to do and that - according to me is innovative music and creativity whereas trance really puts you into a singular "glow-stick" position. You mention that there is a big mistake that people glance upon this from cultural stereotypes. But wasn't EDM music evolved for the clubs? Should it fall into place and be judged from a clubbing perspective?

I might also add here that I've listened to trance for some years now and definetly do not try to jump from the glowsticking to the elitism-techno-fanboys. After all things are not dark or white. To some extent I agree with you that this EDM-war is foolish, however there are so many unknowledgeable people out there that are keen on sharing their opinions that arguing is more or less inevitable.

As a lost note I'd want to mention here that I'm just testing my own perspective here and do not mention that I am correct or anything else. I've seen from previous posts that you're wiedely experienced into different sorts of music and I assume that the age-difference between us is somewhat relevant in the topic at hand.

There will always be different perspectives to see things from. That doesn't only apply in EDM but also to life.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Yeah, but speaking about music in terms of audiences and what are you supposed to do in a club/stadium and who goes and at what age etc. doesn't say anything about the music itself...........................................................................................................Nowadays, I guess it always happened (with many genres as well) but i think that EDM got that type of thinking to the next level.

I agree.

If you just want to see Armin or Tiesto you better buy the DVD. Also I think people which go to Tiesto, Armin or others are the same which also would go to events like Sensation, Dance Valley or Trance Energy. The majority just wants to have a good time and that how it should be.

Another point is that when I went out (years ago) at Friday we went to a club which mainly played House and Techno and at Saturday to a much bigger club which played Trance in one area and commecial stuff in the main area.
Two completely different things but the reason we went was for both the same.

I think there shouldn't be such a focus at Armin and Tiesto events, because they only are just once or twice a year and not weekly, like your favourite and local clubs.

___________________

Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

quote:

Originally posted by Chimney I might also add here that I've listened to trance for some years now and definetly do not try to jump from the glowsticking to the elitism-techno-fanboys. After all things are not dark or white. To some extent I agree with you that this EDM-war is foolish, however there are so many unknowledgeable people out there that are keen on sharing their opinions that arguing is more or less inevitable. As a lost note I'd want to mention here that I'm just testing my own perspective here and do not mention that I am correct or anything else. I've seen from previous posts that you're wiedely experienced into different sorts of music and I assume that the age-difference between us is somewhat relevant in the topic at hand. There will always be different perspectives to see things from. That doesn't only apply in EDM but also to life.

Well, at least if you write it like that it's much better input for a discussion. I understand you're point and for a group of people this is true. But that doesn't mean it's the same for all. Like you said, it's not all black or white.

___________________

Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

Sweet I am going to check this out later when I get a chance, I love Above and Beyond.

___________________
Synth On! Show an hour-long mixproject hosted by DJ YoshiRPG. The mixshow showcases the finest selection of tracks from the Trance , Synthpop and Futurepop Genres.

Tune in today at http://www.synth-on.com/