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Originally posted by ziptnf So, let's look at the wheel for a second: Suppose I start off with a track in 8A (A minor), the way they recommend is to play another song after the first one that is in the same key, but after that, I am allowed to play a track in 9A, 9B, 8A, 8B, 7A, or 7B?

lol yeah your first 2 tracks must *always* be in the same key & your are forbidden to change this

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Originally posted by ziptnf I am aware that it would probably be unwise to hop up and down the scale all over the place, such as if I played a track in 8A then went 7B, 6A, 7A, etc. I feel like that would be bad progression, even if the sound wasn't too far off. Right?

The whole point of the Camelot system is to show which tracks are likely to be harmonically compatible. "Bad progression" is nothing to do with key as such, more to do with the flow of your mix so if you jump from pumping to mellow then pumping to mellow then pumping to mellow for 90 minutes solid it's not going to sound great even though the tracks are harmonically compatible

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Originally posted by keithos27 If you start in 8A, your next track could be 8A again, or 9A, or 7A, or 8B.

Or plenty of other combinations such as 10A, 6A, 5A or 2A. Or anything that sounds good. Remember the harmonic side of things is not so important when there is no melodies overlapping so at these times you can jump anywhere on the wheel including minor/major with some careful EQing

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Originally posted by keithos27 You can always disable key lock, and vary the pitch to change the key as well, which enables you to jump around the wheel. Make sense?

Sorry you have lost me here slightly Sure once you know how it works you can use it to your advantage to move around the wheel quickly but you can't just jump around randomly. Make sure you remember how changing pitch will affect the key as it can throw out the harmonics. Here's an example: If you alter the pitch by 6% (I use anything more than 3% as a 3.5% change for example is closer to 6% than to it's original position of 0%) then the key changes by a semitone which is the equivalent of 7 numbers on the Camelot system. Using Signalrunners "These Shoulders" (Oliver Smith Remix) as an example, the default is approx 134 BPM & Camelot 6A. Increasing the pitch to 138 BPM would change the Camelot reference to 1A.

Like PutBoy sez, just read up on it it's not hard to find & it's much more fun playing around yourself & finding your own way of doing things. Eventually you'll find yourself noticing whether the track you are cueing up sounds right or wrong

Finally don't get too hung up on harmonics, there are plenty of DJ's out there who don't key every track or mix only harmonically

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Originally posted by Trance Android lol yeah your first 2 tracks must *always* be in the same key & your are forbidden to change this The whole point of the Camelot system is to show which tracks are likely to be harmonically compatible. "Bad progression" is nothing to do with key as such, more to do with the flow of your mix so if you jump from pumping to mellow then pumping to mellow then pumping to mellow for 90 minutes solid it's not going to sound great even though the tracks are harmonically compatible Or plenty of other combinations such as 10A, 6A, 5A or 2A. Or anything that sounds good. Remember the harmonic side of things is not so important when there is no melodies overlapping so at these times you can jump anywhere on the wheel including minor/major with some careful EQing Sorry you have lost me here slightly Sure once you know how it works you can use it to your advantage to move around the wheel quickly but you can't just jump around randomly. Make sure you remember how changing pitch will affect the key as it can throw out the harmonics. Here's an example: If you alter the pitch by 6% (I use anything more than 3% as a 3.5% change for example is closer to 6% than to it's original position of 0%) then the key changes by a semitone which is the equivalent of 7 numbers on the Camelot system. Using Signalrunners "These Shoulders" (Oliver Smith Remix) as an example, the default is approx 134 BPM & Camelot 6A. Increasing the pitch to 138 BPM would change the Camelot reference to 1A. Like PutBoy sez, just read up on it it's not hard to find & it's much more fun playing around yourself & finding your own way of doing things. Eventually you'll find yourself noticing whether the track you are cueing up sounds right or wrong Finally don't get too hung up on harmonics, there are plenty of DJ's out there who don't key every track or mix only harmonically

this post wins the thread

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What I don't get is how to use the harmonic EFX on the DJM-800 to harmonically mix two records together. And how to do it without affecting the BPM.

dude the "camelot" system is the biggest piece of plagiarized shit i've ever seen in my life. it's called the fucking circle of fifths people, jesus. i cringe when i see people throw away basic music theory for a quick gimmicky "mixing system"

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue dude the "camelot" system is the biggest piece of plagiarized shit i've ever seen in my life. it's called the fucking circle of fifths people, jesus. i cringe when i see people throw away basic music theory for a quick gimmicky "mixing system"

Not everybody took Music Theory.

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Set Archive | TA DJ Challenge

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue dude the "camelot" system is the biggest piece of plagiarized shit i've ever seen in my life. it's called the fucking circle of fifths people, jesus. i cringe when i see people throw away basic music theory for a quick gimmicky "mixing system"

Well actually without the numbering system, it would be fairly useless - the whole point of the numbers (which as far as I'm aware isn't part of how the circle of fifths is taught in musical theory) is it means if you mark up your tunes with the numbers, you don't need a chart (or cicle of fifths) to refer to.


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On the harmonic mixing front, I've just written a fairly lengthly article on it - explaining the basics, talking about some of the issues and so on, as well as how to make the most out of it, which is going to be published on another site fairly soon... when it is, I'll link it up here as well in case anyone fancies checking it out.

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Stu Cox |

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Originally posted by Stu Cox On the harmonic mixing front, I've just written a fairly lengthly article on it - explaining the basics, talking about some of the issues and so on, as well as how to make the most out of it, which is going to be published on another site fairly soon... when it is, I'll link it up here as well in case anyone fancies checking it out.

great, please share when available.

Anyone do harmonic mixing with vinyl? Do you limit yourself to records of almost the same bpm or are you able to use your ears and mix (even when a record has been pitched up from 0%)?

I'm curious about this.

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Originally posted by Watts Anyone do harmonic mixing with vinyl? Do you limit yourself to records of almost the same bpm or are you able to use your ears and mix (even when a record has been pitched up from 0%)? I'm curious about this.

There are places that list the keys for tracks & from there with a little maths you can work out the change in pitch. Some people key the tracks themselves with a keyboard.

I can't key them by ear but over time I've found I can generally tell when cueing up if the tracks should go nicely or clash horribly.

A friend of mine is an international DJ. I asked him about the intricacies of mixing harmonically & how he does things. He looked at me as if I was mental, said he hadn't got a clue what I was on about. He just seems to do it naturally, I guess some people are lucky like that

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Originally posted by Trance Android A friend of mine is an international DJ. I asked him about the intricacies of mixing harmonically & how he does things. He looked at me as if I was mental, said he hadn't got a clue what I was on about. He just seems to do it naturally, I guess some people are lucky like that

Yeah, there are people out there like that.
Some people make the mistake of confusing this with Perfect Pitch, which in actual fact it is not.

But probably has something known as relevant pitch i.e. the ability to distinguish pitch differences when he/she has an audible key to compare this with.

The good news is that this skill can be trained and you will often find that people who have been DJing for a long time and care about how their mixes sound will indeed develop this over time without actually focusing on it.

On the other hand, knowing harmonic mixing techniques and understanding the principles will excellerate this process dramatically.

The beauty in all of this is that all of the HM haters are actually training up this skill without knowing it and will start to apply it anyway, it may just take longer. Ironic eh?

Cheers
Nem

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Originally posted by keithos27 great, please share when available.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...39&forumid=8&s=

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Stu Cox |