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Originally posted by Storyteller Problem is virtually noone is interested in buying vinyl. I hope you didn't sign the standard Armada contracts btw... They're terrible (and killing the dutch trance scene singlehandedly).

+1.. i used to think armin was cool, but these days he's just more and more of a fucking tool...

like the business recently with the intuition podcast where he said that menno de jong isn't allowed to play any armada material... WHAT KIND OF LABEL DOESN"T WANT PROMOTION!?!?
and then of course the idiots hold tracks for SOOO long before releasing them that by the time they come out nobody wants to buy them anyway cause every pro dj has played it to death.

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-Everything I Say is a Lie-

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Originally posted by lenieNt Force Could you elaborate on that?

Well I recently heard from a friend that signed (after 2 months of hard negotiating) that the original contract handed over exclusive rights to armada over his artist name and merchandise (WTF:wtf for his entire life. On top of that no royalties over the first 500 vinyl sales (and of course it won't make the 500 mark) and just 15% royalties on digital sales. That's just crazy. Oh and they starting making trouble on publishing too because he has a different publisher than the in-house publishing of Armada.

It took 2 months of negiating to get most of these absurd parts out of the contract. But most of it got solved

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

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like the business recently with the intuition podcast where he said that menno de jong isn't allowed to play any armada material... WHAT KIND OF LABEL DOESN"T WANT PROMOTION!?!?

Doesn't Armin play Intuition's material either?

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Originally posted by Storyteller Well I recently heard from a friend that signed (after 2 months of hard negotiating) that the original contract handed over exclusive rights to armada over his artist name and merchandise for his entire life. On top of that no royalties over the first 500 vinyl sales (and of course it won't make the 500 mark) and just 15% royalties on digital sales. That's just crazy.

Huh.. jeeze.. Is this really their standard contract? Could someone else who know a little more about Armada maybe shed some light on this? It would be of deep interest.

I'm not 100% sure if it's a standard contract, however he made it seem like it was.
We're talking about an established producer here that had over a 60 individual (remix) releases. And a lot of those releases feature multiple tracks.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

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Originally posted by EgosXII haha that's mad how did you know where to start and stuff tho? did ya get onto beatport etc?

I made a simple website and contacted audiojelly, trackitdown etc etc with a promo of the tunes i was planning to release in the start. got deals with them pretty fast and then everything was up. Beatport was abit harder but i got deal there too now and sales are bigger there. I havent released anything since summer/fall though so I might loose the deal with beatport if I dont hurry up and get things around, which I hopefully will this easter.
My music is released on audiojelly, beatport, dance-tunes, djdownload and trackitdown and all of them are great, simple and provides good service so distributors are waste of time and money imo, they only fuck up your releases with wrong names, error in mp3 decoding etc etc, the list is long how much stuff that can be fucked up with a release if u dont handle everything yourself, the industri are packed with retard drugheads that just dont understand computers and that kind of technology. All of the mp3-sites mentioned have good "import new release" procedures if u are abit technicaly gifted computer wise.
If ur into it for cash and fame this is not the route to go though unless u have a good network for promoting yourself or a really special sound in your tracks. I have neither and I dont care but I like my music to be avaliable for those who are interested, and some seems to be. Thats all really, its not alot of work and why should these stupid big labels get the little amount of money your tracks might make? They dont do shit for you. I have a few releases around on Club Elite, J00F and Bonzai and I regret all of them, Id rather put them on my own label so I could atleast look at the sales-numbers. I actually asked all of them if I could break up the contract and re-release the tracks on my own label, without luck.
Im never signing a contract again

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Originally posted by palm I made a simple website and contacted audiojelly, trackitdown etc etc with a promo of the tunes i was planning to release in the start. got deals with them pretty fast and then everything was up. Beatport was abit harder but i got deal there too now and sales are bigger there. I havent released anything since summer/fall though so I might loose the deal with beatport if I dont hurry up and get things around, which I hopefully will this easter. My music is released on audiojelly, beatport, dance-tunes, djdownload and trackitdown and all of them are great, simple and provides good service so distributors are waste of time and money imo, they only fuck up your releases with wrong names, error in mp3 decoding etc etc, the list is long how much stuff that can be fucked up with a release if u dont handle everything yourself, the industri are packed with retard drugheads that just dont understand computers and that kind of technology. All of the mp3-sites mentioned have good "import new release" procedures if u are abit technicaly gifted computer wise. If ur into it for cash and fame this is not the route to go though unless u have a good network for promoting yourself or a really special sound in your tracks. I have neither and I dont care but I like my music to be avaliable for those who are interested, and some seems to be. Thats all really, its not alot of work and why should these stupid big labels get the little amount of money your tracks might make? They dont do shit for you. I have a few releases around on Club Elite, J00F and Bonzai and I regret all of them, Id rather put them on my own label so I could atleast look at the sales-numbers. I actually asked all of them if I could break up the contract and re-release the tracks on my own label, without luck. Im never signing a contract again

Interesting stuff dude, how long you been producing now? Whats your site and where can I listen to your tunes?

I think the bigger question is, is it usefull to run your own label to release your tracks, regardless if you're going to make money or not. Because if we face the facts, very little EDM producers make good money out of this business.

personally, I don't think its worth it to setup your own label and releasing your stuff. The interesting thing of signing to a 'established' label, is that they won't sign your track unless it has a certain quality. If you create your own label, you can release any shitty track you make (not saying that you do!). I think that that's the most important reason for trying to sign to a 'established' label. And I don't think it's a good reason to set up your own label just to release your stuff. If you want to get you stuff out there, there are lot's of oppertunities to do so.

Sure, I think most producers love to run there own label - so do I -, but there are so many labels these days, that you have a very small chance of making it thru, unless you sign some major artists to your label.

So, in conclusion, I think you should try to get tracks signed at a 'established' label instead of setting up your own! If you really want to sell you tracks (because you think they should be heard), on Audiojelly there is a unsigned artist section. I don't have any experience with that but maybe it's worth it to check it out.

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Upcoming releases:
Hernandes ft. Stine Groove - Without You (Kyota remix) (Redux Recordings)
Kyota - Senegal (Flashover Recordings)

Last edited by Theran on Mar-31-2009 at 08:42

I disagree on a lot of parts.

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Originally posted by Theran personally, I don't think its worth it to setup your own label and releasing your stuff. The interesting thing of signing to a 'established' label, is that they won't sign your track unless it has a certain quality. If you create your own label, you can release any shitty track you make (not saying that you do!). I think that that's the most important reason for trying to sign to a 'established' label. And I don't think it's a good reason to set up your own label just to release your stuff. If you want to get you stuff out there, there are lot's of oppertunities to do so.

I do think it's worth it. It's not interesting anymore to sign to any label anymore. A lot of the formerly established labels sign shit all over the place in order to have that potential hit. I browse beatport daily for some nice tech/prog house and progtrance, yet I only found 2 labels which I consider to have a consistent quality control. Armada (especially their sister company Cloud 9) and Blackhole and a lot of the other big ones as well sign way too much crap all over the place, poor mixdowns, huge smily face spectrum on masters, it's all there. A lot of these labels actually sell next to nothing just as small labels do.

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Sure, I think most producers love to run there own label - so do I -, but there are so many labels these days, that you have a very small chance of making it thru, unless you sign some major artists to your label.

When catching up with a friend last week I've heard is that I sell just as much as he does even though he dj's around the globe on a regular basis. Even though he has over 60 releases on his portfolio and a bigger fanbase. The "having major artists makes it a quality label" comparison pretty much became false as digital downloads started to get a bigger market share. The costs are 0, the financial risk is too. You can just put out all the crap you have and perhaps you'll earn some!

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So, in conclusion, I think you should try to get tracks signed at a 'established' label instead of setting up your own! If you really want to sell you tracks (because you think they should be heard), on Audiojelly there is a unsigned artist section. I don't have any experience with that but maybe it's worth it to check it out.

My conclusion is just the opposite. Do it.

By setting up your own label you'll earn double as much on the sales (or more depending on the contract) than you would with a label. Promotion these days is neglible and returns are too.

The only problem is it takes time, dedication and effort to run it all yourself. The only reason I haven't done this myself is because I don't have enough time to run a little label on the side. I already work late pretty much every day.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Mar-31-2009 at 09:40

The problem with EDM in general is that a huge amount of every fan of the music is a DJ, Producer or something like that himself.

Its a saturated marked, and i would guess that most track sells for 2 weeks to then disappear from the face of the earth.

And not only that, but the DJs actually playing the music has most likely gotten the track for free by promo.

So if you are gonna make it, you have to constantly come up with new releases otherwise you will be forgotten.

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

Never thought of it in that way. If what you're stating is true, that it's maybe a good thing to do it!
Only problem I see is, that if everybody does that, you'll end up having as much labels as there are artists and what's that going to do for the music business

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Upcoming releases:
Hernandes ft. Stine Groove - Without You (Kyota remix) (Redux Recordings)
Kyota - Senegal (Flashover Recordings)

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Never thought of it in that way. If what you're stating is true, that it's maybe a good thing to do it! Only problem I see is, that if everybody does that, you'll end up having as much labels as there are artists and what's that going to do for the music business

The way I see it we already passed that mark. Having another label around doesn't do much good, but no bad either from my point of view.

Another advantage is that you wouldn't have to worry about outrageous contracts with stupid exclusivity demands anymore!

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier