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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well people only say that sort of thing after they've been told to. It seems a subtle and mysterious little phenomenon only because we live in a world inundated with advertising, making it impossible to tell the difference. But that's not to imply that contagious behaviour and fashion is a new thing at all. In fact, none of this is new at all.

Advertising is a funny one. Recently I read a book called Affluenza, which viciously attacks the greed and constant clamber for status in America, the United Kingdom and Australia. It cites a variety of different studies and basically proves that the amount of items people think they "need" has risen dramatically, and where once the dream was to say, own your own house, now the dream is to own your own house with a pool, in a good suburb. People are discontent with whatever they have.

Anyway, the part I found a interesting was where the author states something along the lines of: "the world's best psychologists are at work 24/7, while the other psychologists spend all their time trying to undo the damage." The statement was a reference to advertisers making us constantly feel inadequate, needy and to obsess over objects we don't actually need. Clinical psychologists then have to try and treat us when this bombardment manifests itself into actual mental issues. I thought that was an interesting concept. Advertising basically is psychology when you think about it.

i smoke roll ups, i never knew this was hipsterish. i just prefer them.

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Advertising definitely plays on psychology (whether it means to or not) and can only stand to become more affective as the methods for reaching people become more sophisticated.

But I think that it's human nature - indeed, animal nature to desire more and more, despite what has already been attained. Mere "survival" is not enough - not in any reasonable society, anyways. What luxury truly plays upon however is our nature as fertile beings - we shall constantly desire base comforts (warmth and a full belly, to remind us of the security of childhood) and the status that fashion and money grant (reproductive efficacy and fostering potential) - it's why women in developing countries will clamor for lipstick and personal pampering effects as if they were necessary - status and competition within our society is even more vital to us than elementary nourishment. There shall always be a market for a luxurious "edge" when it comes to humans in their civilisations. As such, there shall probably always exist an America, in one way or another (if you can call it that, and not Babylon or Rome or Constantinople, etc).

Culture really is a battlefield though - take whatever this fucking thread is even about; a niche meme re-appears from the smoldering remains of melencolia, and is suddenly under scrutiny on an electronic music website, it's perpetuation probably in some way decided by our judgments and approval at this very junction. But this sort of thing happens each and every day in the mutable nature of memes. However, be assured that whatever cultural 'movement' we are talking about, someone out there coined the phrases, the way to dress, the way to think/act/react - and is probably reaping the benefits in some way, most likely in a sexually opportunistic manner, while the rest of us do all of the advertising.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Last edited by Halcyon+On+On on Apr-26-2009 at 12:10

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Originally posted by Domesticated I've never been part of a fashion-dictated sub-culture. I just don't get it. It's almost like people are so insecure about who they are and where they "belong" in society that they have to dress and act like other people to make themselves feel better. When I see people like that I automatically think they have low self-esteem. I mean, of course, everyone plays that game to a certain degree - we all wear clothes outside because it's weird not to, but what I don't understand is people who all of a sudden say "I want to be part of [x] culture, I had better go out and buy appropriate clothes."

yeah. i think that's because you and i just dont give a fuck about other people

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quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Advertising definitely plays on psychology (whether it means to or not) and can only stand to become more affective as the methods for reaching people become more sophisticated. But I think that it's human nature - indeed, animal nature to desire more and more, despite what has already been attained. Mere "survival" is not enough - not in any reasonable society, anyways. What luxury truly plays upon however is our nature as fertile beings - we shall constantly desire base comforts (warmth and a full belly, to remind us of the security of childhood) and the status that fashion and money grant (reproductive efficacy and fostering potential) - it's why women in developing countries will clamor for lipstick and personal pampering effects as if they were necessary - status and competition within our society is even more vital to us than elementary nourishment. There shall always be a market for a luxurious "edge" when it comes to humans in their civilisations. As such, there shall probably always exist an America, in one way or another (if you can call it that, and not Babylon or Rome or Constantinople, etc). Culture really is a battlefield though - take whatever this fucking thread is even about; a niche meme re-appears from the smoldering remains of melencolia, and is suddenly under scrutiny on an electronic music website, it's perpetuation probably in some way decided by our judgments and approval at this very junction. But this sort of thing happens each and every day in the mutable nature of memes. However, be assured that whatever cultural 'movement' we are talking about, someone out there coined the phrases, the way to dress, the way to think/act/react - and is probably reaping the benefits in some way, most likely in a sexually opportunistic manner, while the rest of us do all of the advertising.

Great post. Well-written and interesting. I'm a big believer in the remnants of animalistic impulses. People talk about being human and being able to overcome their base instincts, but in the end we're really just big bags of filthy hormones, full of desires for food and sex. To me, everything we do as humans points to that being true. Your example was a good one.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah. i think that's because you and i just dont give a fuck about other people

Probably. That's never entirely true though. Even the biggest anti-conformist, individualist or hard arse wants to be accepted in some form into society and "belong" with people, but I just don't see how dressing a certain way could achieve that in any true sense.

I love that episode of South Park where Kyle becomes the goth and the whole thing parodies "non-conformists". While the show may appear crude and cheap on the surface, those guys certainly have a good perspective on the shitty bits of the society and/or current issues and how to send them up.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Advertising is a funny one. Recently I read a book called Affluenza, which viciously attacks the greed and constant clamber for status in America, the United Kingdom and Australia. It cites a variety of different studies and basically proves that the amount of items people think they "need" has risen dramatically, and where once the dream was to say, own your own house, now the dream is to own your own house with a pool, in a good suburb. People are discontent with whatever they have.

This is actually directly related to poverty. For some, the enticement of being able to buy a used TV outweighs being able to buy nutritious food for the family for a week, because culture dictates that a TV is a necessity and not a luxury.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov This is actually directly related to poverty. For some, the enticement of being able to buy a used TV outweighs being able to buy nutritious food for the family for a week, because culture dictates that a TV is a necessity and not a luxury.

when would they have the time to watch it? they're too busy shining my shoes.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN when would they have the time to watch it? they're too busy shining my shoes.

Who said anything about watching it? They probably can't afford the electric bill, but at least they can tell their friends and family that they have a TV (a huge point of pride for some).

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN when would they have the time to watch it? they're too busy shining my shoes.

Or collecting welfare out of your cheque.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Or collecting welfare out of your cheque.

Exactly. What people are too blind to see is the global conspiracy amongst poor people to keep rich people powerless. Poor people collude with each other to stay poor, and the powerful pro-poor lobby in Washington effectively manages to keep welfare benefits on the table, and they're constantly working to make welfare cheques bigger and bigger! In this way, poor people are dictating to rich people how they spend their money! It's a New World Order of lazy poor people controlling the power and money of hard-working rich people! If they get their way, rich people will never even see their paychecks, because poor people will use the massive power and control at their disposal to siphon all the funds directly into their micro-credit enterprises! You think the Grameen Bank is making loans out of the goodness of their heart? No! It's a conglomerate of poor people stealing money from the rich and re-distributing to their partners!

All you have to do is research "global poor" on google and you will find answers. That and Bilderberger. San Francisco.

I've already said too much.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated I love that episode of South Park where Kyle becomes the goth and the whole thing parodies "non-conformists". While the show may appear crude and cheap on the surface, those guys certainly have a good perspective on the shitty bits of the society and/or current issues and how to send them up.

Stan, not Kyle.