quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The "something by the sun" was written by a city councillor. They are doing this for a reason. Its because they dont like cars and think that by making life hell for drivers, they can force people into public transit.

Guess I should have read that last line.
Still - I would be interested in reading something from the 'other side'

I'd like to see both sides of the story before forming an opinion

___________________
"House music is the soundtrack to the more deviant, exciting, rebellious side of life." -Lawler

quote:

Originally posted by English Rachel Can you try peppering your doom and gloom with SOMETHING positive? You really are the definition of a 'naysayer'

On TranceAddict perhaps.

On a positive note... Im on a muthafuckin boat this Sunday!!! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Intangible Guess I should have read that last line. Still - I would be interested in reading something from the 'other side' I'd like to see both sides of the story before forming an opinion

This might help

http://torontoist.com/2009/05/four_..._wheels_bad.php

Apparently they want to revitalize the neighbourhood. All this will do is create congestion and cause people to avoid the area altogether as far as im concerned. These bike lovers tend to forget that even people who live there need to get in and out of neighbourhoods. Also im pretty sure people on jarvis need to "just pass through" other neighbourhoods in Toronto to get to where they need to go.

This whole idea smacks of NIMBYism and "me first" selfishness

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 This might help http://torontoist.com/2009/05/four_..._wheels_bad.php Apparently they want to revitalize the neighbourhood. All this will do is create congestion and cause people to avoid the area altogether as far as im concerned. These bike lovers tend to forget that even people who live there need to get in and out of neighbourhoods. Also im pretty sure people on jarvis need to "just pass through" other neighbourhoods in Toronto to get to where they need to go. This whole idea smacks of NIMBYism and "me first" selfishness

Ok... Im all for making Jarvis street a nicer area, alot of it needs to be cleaned up.

BUT here is my 2 cents about taking away road space for bikers... We live in Toronto our winters are COLD. How many of these bikers ride their bike when its -20? Instead they will be in their cars on a very congested street snow storm....

I am all for going green but something just dont make sense because of our climate.

___________________
"House music is the soundtrack to the more deviant, exciting, rebellious side of life." -Lawler

quote:

Originally posted by Intangible Ok... Im all for making Jarvis street a nicer area, alot of it needs to be cleaned up. BUT here is my 2 cents about taking away road space for bikers... We live in Toronto our winters are COLD. How many of these bikers ride their bike when its -20? Instead they will be in their cars on a very congested street snow storm.... I am all for going green but something just dont make sense because of our climate.

Agreed! if Jarvis had somewhere to go then there would be more people. Streets can look nicer with more plants, sidewalks that arent just the standard grey colour (i dont know why ontario is the only place that disallows anything but grey sidewalks) and by adding viable businesses with nice facades instead of just condo after condo. I think Jarvis would be a great canadidate for a spur subway line from Bloor to a dundas or queen line. Ah but now im just fantasizing arent i?

quote:

Originally posted by Intangible But honestly they wouldnt be doing this for no reason

They have a very good reason: They don't like cars in their neighbourhoods.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 In a country with cheap reliable and extensive transit this is doable. Here we are decades away from this even if we were to start today. Id love to be able to live car free but its not practical in toronto unless you have extra time to kill and/or u live work and play along a few major corridors

Unfortunately it doesn't happen over night. Motorists will bitch about losing a lane to cyclists, but not use the lane for their own bikes. Or they will complain that transit is causing congestion, or road repairs are blocking traffic, but ultimately, those things are being done with the long term in mind. this city needs to become more cycle and transit friendly, and doing that is going to piss off a lot of motorists, plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Unfortunately it doesn't happen over night. Motorists will bitch about losing a lane to cyclists, but not use the lane for their own bikes. Or they will complain that transit is causing congestion, or road repairs are blocking traffic, but ultimately, those things are being done with the long term in mind. this city needs to become more cycle and transit friendly, and doing that is going to piss off a lot of motorists, plain and simple.

But bike lanes do very little to nothing for the city if they take up vehicle capacity. How about elevated roads? elevated Subways? In china i lived next to an expressway that was elevated right through the city centre and you barely noticed it. It had one way roads on either sides with streetscapes. The bridge was nicely painted and had brush all around it. How about elevated trains like chicago or detroit? Tunnels? Lets spend money on these things. Id even be in favour of (gasp) a toll but only if they were to announce a massive project like this CITYWIDE.

Cutting capacity with no long term vision for the city is foolish. Adding more streetcars is even dumber. And this laughable transit program that they announced that will close even more lanes of traffic in the suburbs wont even be ready until 2020!!

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Unfortunately it doesn't happen over night. Motorists will bitch about losing a lane to cyclists, but not use the lane for their own bikes. Or they will complain that transit is causing congestion, or road repairs are blocking traffic, but ultimately, those things are being done with the long term in mind. this city needs to become more cycle and transit friendly, and doing that is going to piss off a lot of motorists, plain and simple.

Please explain how tearing up roads for bike lanes is being done with the "long term" in mind. What long-term vision is this? Last time I checked, car was a far more popular and more efficient and more practical mode of transportation than bicycle.

Mass transit is an entirely different story. Even so, there are many ways to build out mass transit without causing further traffic congestion, and in order to be useful the new mass transit has to extend far enough to support commuters who can't already get there by mass transit (for example, replacing buses with a streetcar lane on St. Clair is not actually providing any alternative means for King City residents to get to their workplaces).

It's so easy, especially when you live downtown, to pooh-pooh those wasteful gas-guzzling motorists and chalk it all up to some mystical utopian long-term vision. Politicians like David Miller count on precisely that kind of sloppy, lazy rationalization. If you actually look at what's going on with a semicritical eye, it's extremely obvious that there is no long term, that we are in fact already way past the point where a long-term vision should have been realized, and that the real motivation behind most of these initiatives is an addle-brained remember-the-good-old-days let's-bring-back-ye-olde-downtowne first-step-get-rid-of-the-cars NIMBY mentality.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 But bike lanes do very little to nothing for the city if they take up vehicle capacity.

Why not? Tons of cyclists benefit from them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 "disincentives" only cause me to do less business in toronto. Already i commute to etobicoke from parkdale (10 min drive) to do all my shopping since parking in my part of town is nearly non existent. And walking would add an extra 45 mins to my day everytime i needed something. We need MORE one way streets, not LESS. Look at every major city and they have some sort of a one way street grid unless its like beijing where they have super wide boulevards.

you go to the parkdale drink alot?