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Originally posted by Sentinal The opposition is looking at pointing some blame to the Minister of Health, but as per Dalton politics, they are being completely stonewalled. There needs to be more solid opposition to this liberal party in Ontario or this shit will continue to happen. That can be Tory, NDP, whatever, but nothing will change at least until the next election when hopefully Ontario will wake the fuck up!!!!

Blame Mike Harris! LOL

But seriously imagine the press and the critics if this were a PC government. Why are canadians so forgiving when it comes to liberals?

Furthermore, why do we keep electing them?

Scandals happen in all governments but it seems to be more of a "gotcha" game when it happens to a right of centre government.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Any investment in stocks is a high risk. I dont consider the payout he got to be government money like ehealth was. Pension money is government money.

But the payout came from shareholder pockets, and teachers is a large shareholder. and that money is the tax payer's (or at least the beneficiaries of the teachers plan) - so I'm confused on whether this kind of thing matters to a govt critic like yourself.

Unfortunately managing this kind of money and paying out the crazy amounts that teachers get at retirement requires taking on risk. Risk = return. Simple time value of money requires some element of investment risk to compensate. You don't manage this many billions of dollars with Ontario savings bonds. I'm not suggesting taking on a complex US dollar-bet strategy like UTAM did, but some balance of equities in a portfolio is required here.

Of course it matters which is why the head of the pension fund should be fired for losing so much money in bad stock.

What goes on in private companies is between them and the shareholder. The pension fund CEO obviously is the one who should be accountable to us taxpayers and this person used our money to invest in a bad stock.

Risk does equal return but when it comes to taxpayer money i argue that the risk should be minimal. Bank interest and government bonds may not pay as much but they are secure. One lesson my dad, a banker, always taught me is that when it comes to the stock market, never invest money that you arent ready to completely lose. And, i dont think the government should be ready to lose ANY of our money.

You know what's a risk? Having a defined benefit pension plan to begin with. Look at teachers, GM, air canada - all fucked over by pension obligations. It's archaic.

Government Bond funds and Money Market funds have very low risk and have the least returns. But the returns as of late don't even compensate for the inflation as of late. I can see this being a point of interest. But Jay is right, with taxpayer money it should be completely invested in secure and lowest risk funds.

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Originally posted by Skipper You know what's a risk? Having a defined benefit pension plan to begin with. Look at teachers, GM, air canada - all fucked over by pension obligations. It's archaic.

I agree with you for pension plans for employees in the private sector as the benefits may not always be placed at paramount, but until as of late the teachers pension is quite sucessful and benefial for Ontario teachers. I'm sitting on the fence on this one, lol.

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Originally posted by Sentinal Government Bond funds and Money Market funds have very low risk and have the least returns. But the returns as of late don't even compensate for the inflation as of late. I can see this being a point of interest. But Jay is right, with taxpayer money it should be completely invested in secure and lowest risk funds.

The problem being that the return of these investments doesn't come close to matching the return required to support compensation growth, inflation and time value of money.

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Originally posted by Skipper The problem being that the return of these investments doesn't come close to matching the return required to support compensation growth, inflation and time value of money.

But the same could be said of the stock market now that it has crashed as hard as it has.

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Originally posted by d-form Why? She got less than her contract entitled her to. If anything we got a deal. Sounds like she didn't even do anything wrong as most of the contracts were awarded before she even got there. The bonus she gave herself was a little suspect. How she was able to approve her own bonus is beyond me.

I'm pissed because it's our tax paying dollars not at work. She accomplished nothing, had ties to some of the contracts, gave herself a bonus...what more did you want. How can anyone justify paying out to someone who is incompetent. Who recommeneded her, who put her in that position. I think that person should be canned too.

___________________
Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

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Originally posted by Jayx1 But the same could be said of the stock market now that it has crashed as hard as it has.

Hindsight is 20/20. There isn't a fund manager out there who fully and completely called the timing on the market crash last year...some are just down less than others. We're now having a major market rally that a lot of money mgrs aren't even participating in because the fear is still too high. Behavioral finance is a bit of a bitch like that.

What we're going through now is unprecedented - you can't possibly expect everyone to move money into cash and fixed income at exactly the right time.

Long term return of stocks is pretty solid, even considering the recent crash. There's just no arguing with that.

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Originally posted by Sentinal I agree with you for pension plans for employees in the private sector as the benefits may not always be placed at paramount, but until as of late the teachers pension is quite sucessful and benefial for Ontario teachers. I'm sitting on the fence on this one, lol.

Me two

___________________
Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Hindsight is 20/20. There isn't a fund manager out there who fully and completely called the timing on the market crash last year...some are just down less than others. We're now having a major market rally that a lot of money mgrs aren't even participating in because the fear is still too high. Behavioral finance is a bit of a bitch like that. What we're going through now is unprecedented - you can't possibly expect everyone to move money into cash and fixed income at exactly the right time. Long term return of stocks is pretty solid, even considering the recent crash. There's just no arguing with that.

As i said though there are risks with ANY stock you buy. 5 years ago GM was considered a solid investment as were many blue chip companies. If you invested in those you will never see your money come back as they have been vapourized. Risk private capital all you want but public money should not be risked in this manner