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Originally posted by Q5echo b-b-but...the things...the things he said? what about his words? i want him to f**k in my earhole with those words again, dayummm

A little word of advice. Anytime you hear any specific predictions on macro-economic trends, where a number is actually given, be very very skeptical. From Obama, from Republicans, even from economists themselves. It's practically impossible to say unemployment will be this or that if we do or don't do this or that. Frankly, I don't blame the Obama administration from using such rhetoric in order to advance their policy goals. It's what every politician does and should be expected.

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Originally posted by Krypton Dow Jones Industrial Index Obama Inauguration Day (Jan 20, 2009) = 7,949 Yesterday's Index Close = 8,711 Percentage Change = 9.5% That's all I care about.

Captialism at its finist. So long you get out before a correction hits everything is A-OK

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Originally posted by Krypton A little word of advice. Anytime you hear any specific predictions on macro-economic trends, where a number is actually given, be very very skeptical. From Obama, from Republicans, even from economists themselves. It's practically impossible to say unemployment will be this or that if we do or don't do this or that. Frankly, I don't blame the Obama administration from using such rhetoric in order to advance their policy goals. It's what every politician does and should be expected.

dude, it's $800 billion dollars. i'm not supposed to question $800 billion dollars?

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Originally posted by Q5echo dude, it's $800 billion dollars. i'm not supposed to question $800 billion dollars?

I never said don't question it. But where was your concern for fiscal discipline when your people were in power?

I'm also dissatisfied with this stimulus. A stimulus in my opinion should have an almost immediate effect. Not this, wait 1-2 years, for it just to be spent.

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Originally posted by Krypton I never said don't question it. But where was your concern for fiscal discipline when your people were in power? I'm also dissatisfied with this stimulus. A stimulus in my opinion should have an almost immediate effect. Not this, wait 1-2 years, for it just to be spent.

well, i guess not blaming them for what they say and holding them accountable for what they say are probably two different things.

it's really the motives i question more.

i'm not saying 13+% of GDP isn't sustainable, but 4% 1 year ago certainly was

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Originally posted by Krypton All I'm saying is high unemployment shouldn't be blamed on Obama. About the Tom Gallagher thing you posted. Yea, pretty insightful, maybe I assumed too much, thinking it was a blame article or something. The market is up for a variety of reasons including the one you mentioned. But when we're talking about the economy and the president's policies, the first indicator I go to is the stock market, before anything else.

OK. Glad we got that sorted out. Yes, it is not an article about blame. FYI, ISI is one of the most apolitical, objective organizations I know of.

Out of curiosity, what was the market telling us from November-December 2008 when it ran up over 20% in 2 months?

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Originally posted by Q5echo well, i guess not blaming them for what they say and holding them accountable for what they say are probably two different things. it's really the motives i question more. i'm not saying 13+% of GDP isn't sustainable, but 4% 1 year ago certainly was

It isn't sustainable and isn't meant to be. They are following the Keynesian model of economics which would have the government stimulate the economy through deficit spending. The reason why the "stimulus" was $800 billion was because, at the time, it seemed like such high government expenditure was necessary given the dire circumstances of the economy.

What motives are you talking about? Are you saying the Obama administration is maliciously trying to take control of the economy?

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Originally posted by Shakka OK. Glad we got that sorted out. Yes, it is not an article about blame. FYI, ISI is one of the most apolitical, objective organizations I know of. Out of curiosity, what was the market telling us from November-December 2008 when it ran up over 20% in 2 months?

From November 1 to December 31, 2008, the Dow Jones fell about 6%.

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Originally posted by Krypton From November 1 to December 31, 2008, the Dow Jones fell about 6%.

Why is November 1 important to you? From the lows in November (11/21/2009, commonly called "the November lows") through the end of the year, the Dow Jones rallied ~21%. If you recall, the low coincided with Tim Geithner's appointment. However the economy was arguably not improving a lick considering that the market completely fell off a cliff in the beginning of the year making new lows in March.

Also, I really think you should consider using a broader index like the S&P 500 when you make statements like you have in this thread. The Dow Jones "Industrial" average doesn't even contain all industrial companies and is an extremely small sample size. I know the indices tend to follow similar trends, but it is more prudent (IMHO) to use a better overall market barameter.

For what it's worth, from 11/21/2009 - 1/6/2009 the S&P 500 rallied ~27% before rolling over and falling another 30% to the March lows.

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Originally posted by Shakka Why is November 1 important to you? From the lows in November (11/21/2009, commonly called "the November lows") through the end of the year, the Dow Jones rallied ~21%. If you recall, the low coincided with Tim Geithner's appointment. However the economy was arguably not improving a lick considering that the market completely fell off a cliff in the beginning of the year making new lows in March. Also, I really think you should consider using a broader index like the S&P 500 when you make statements like you have in this thread. The Dow Jones "Industrial" average doesn't even contain all industrial companies and is an extremely small sample size. I know the indices tend to follow similar trends, but it is more prudent (IMHO) to use a better overall market barameter. For what it's worth, from 11/21/2009 - 1/6/2009 the S&P 500 rallied ~27% before rolling over and falling another 30% to the March lows.

All you said was November to December..

There are a myriad of reasons why the market could have gone up in that specific, extremely small, period of time. But when we're talking specifically about the new administration and the economy, I can say with confidence, that since inauguration day, the financial system has stabilized, and as I stated, the stock market has gone up 9.5%. The recession isn't over, but I don't think the hypocritical Republicans who blame Obama for things that happen during a recession, is rational in the least bit. Just take a listen at Hannity or Rush, and hear them blame everything, unemployment especially, on Obama. It's laughable.

I personally think the Dow Jones, NASDAQ, and S&P500 are equally good measures of American economic performance.

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Originally posted by Krypton It isn't sustainable and isn't meant to be. They are following the Keynesian model of economics which would have the government stimulate the economy through deficit spending.

wasn't the previous administration Keynesian? they managed to end up with a 4% deficit after 8 years. i don't understand what your beef is with the last administration if you apporve of this administration following the same "model" and coming up with a 13% deficit inside of 6 months?

...and how can you not question their motives when most of the $800 billion is alloted to Democrat constituencies with absolutely no intention of being stimulative? IOW "porkulus" was a donkey party boondoggle - it was a wish list of all the things they wanted for their constuents they were unable to get over the last decade. it was never intended to "stimulate", AS ADVERTIZED.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...oryId=106750467

Leading indicators are actually quite positive right now. Unemployment is a lagging indicator, so although it may seem the "most real" it is also not a good way of judging the trends of the economy.