Orbax: Is that your pic?

Special_K: Yes there was a study which supposedly linked creatine to cancer but since it has been regarde as very unreliable.

As for supplements, yes nothing beats real food but supplements ae quite helpful as it is very hard to eat get the 1 gram/pound of protien which is generally recommended for those in rigorous weight training programs. The first thing to do is get a milk based protein (whey or casein). Whey based proteins are best for use immediately after trainig as they tend to create in influx of amino acids when you need it (always eat fast digesting proteins and high glycemic carbs w/in 30 mins. of training) while casein is better for more endurance as its aminos are slowly absorbed.

Creatine and glutamine are also valuable supplements. Add in multivitamin and you're set. Everything else is more or less peripheral.

Oh yeah, don't forget that all the supplements won't do you any good unless you train hard and get plenty of rest as well.

yeah

thats 5 months of workin out

From what i take it, when u say body building supplements you mean the products where u put x amount of spoonfuls into drinks stir and then drink yeah? if not then disregard all below :P

Basically all the drinks are doing are increasing the level of protein in your body. proteins will just give you more energy and in no way shape or form, will they make your muscles bigger or smaller etc. The way your muscles become bigger is through stretching them (via weights exercises/gym etc), and like a rubber band - if you stretch it extensively and release it, it doesn't reform its original shape. It appears not have the same elasticity as before. This is kind of how your muscles will work. You stretch them so that they lose that 'elasticity'(heavy resistance) and they become bigger. Now all the proteins are doing are providing you fuel/energy to do these extensive weight sessions (minimum 30mins). As it's been said before, you can get them via natural sources such as breads, cereals etc. There's no real difference in supplementing them via these 'muscle building drinks'(that they call themselves), however just be mindful of some drinks. Ask around, as you are doing here, to see if anyone else has used these drinks before etc. and their thoughts/opinions about it.
Now with creatine supplements, they're serving almost the same purpose as proteins in terms of fuel/energy. Creatine is already in our bodies and it is used in the processes of short exercises(8-10secs). What happens is molecules of ATP-PC (adensine triphosphate-phosphor creatine) split apart and that reaction releases heat + energy to the muscle. The reaction on itself doesn't create that much energy, but many of these reactions take place at the time of the exercise (say, doing one repetition of a heavy weight) giving the overall energy for the movement. The ATP-PC energy system is anaerobic (which means, without oxygen). So when you are doing your 1, 5, 10 etc reps. your muscles are performing that task without oxygen (however you still breathe because your brain + heart needs oxygen!). The reason you take a break between doing a 'set'(number of repetitions) is so that your body has time to replace the ATP-PC that was lost during the short burst of exercise. It usually takes 2 minutes for this to occur, however the more exercise you do in the one session the longer it progressively takes to replace the ATP-PC. Eg. a track sprinter, sprints 100m and might walk back to the starting line afterwards and repeat, because the time taken to walk back, set up to run again would take 2minutes or however long is needed to replace/produce ATP-PC molecules. If the sprinter has been doing this for 20 minutes, the time taken to replace his ATP-PC may be up to 4 or so minutes etc. All this adds up to creatine supplements reducing the amount of time you need to rest between sets.
Always remember though, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing!

I hope this has given you a little bit more understanding of the whole situation, i didnt intend to write as much as i did so i hope its of some use. If you're unsure of any bits just quote it etc and i'll try and explain it a bit better.

yeah, i have to agree with orbax.

you can do just fine without creatine. why waste the $$$ on it?

I have been working out every day for 10 months now (except weekends; cardio tues and thurs, resistance m/w/f) and my body is looking great without any.

My friend that I workout with used creatine for the first 2 months, and he didnt look any different from me, and we did the same routine.

quote:

Originally posted by eternity4ever which supplement is the best? i am planning to to get nitro-tech and cell-tech they are the best product available on the market today.

Run away from anything Muscle Tech makes, they have been caught lying on their labels a number of times... They are great at marketing but they are shady with their products.

Stick with quality names like EAS, Weider, etc...

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quote:

Originally posted by Matrix yeah, i have to agree with orbax. you can do just fine without creatine. why waste the $$$ on it? I have been working out every day for 10 months now (except weekends; cardio tues and thurs, resistance m/w/f) and my body is looking great without any. My friend that I workout with used creatine for the first 2 months, and he didnt look any different from me, and we did the same routine.

Creatine has been proven over and over as a very effective way to increase strength and mass.. Its also excellent at speeding up muscle recovery.

If your friend wasn't seeing results it could be because of cheap brand name creatine, not stacking, etc...

I used effervescant creatine from EAS and found it WAY more effective than using the powder...

But have no doubt, creatine is for real and if its not working for you, it must be something you are doing or that you are using low quality stuff.

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quote:

Originally posted by Thor Creatine has been proven over and over as a very effective way to increase strength and mass.. Its also excellent at speeding up muscle recovery.

The first part of this statement is wrong! You must understand creatine will not build your muscles for you. The only thing it will do, is as you said in the next sentence, speed up muscle recovery time.
Proven by..

quote:

Originally posted by Matrix My friend that I workout with used creatine for the first 2 months, and he didnt look any different from me, and we did the same routine.

The only reason to buy these types of supplements is if you plan on doing really heavy workout sessions, and many of them. Bodybuilders may well use these, because their job is to have maximum muscle tone, which often requires whole days in a gym. If you're only looking at doing 30-45min sessions (which if you are only starting serious weight sessions should be the min-max time) you don't need these supplements.

I used creatine for 2 months , it does wonders and all , but i drink to much beer which kills the creatine like 80% , i dont need suplements .

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" You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip
through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us will-
ing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert."

Hey, no matter what, be very careful with whatever supplement you take because in the long run you become ADDICTED. You create a mentality dependant on it.
Majority of supplements as such are known to cause so many health problems like liver dysfunction, kidney failure, strokes, etc etc. It's really bad. Why do you think many of them are not FDA approved and then taken off the shelves in a matter of months? Listen, just looking out for a brotha!

quote:

Originally posted by sifntj0r ...proteins will just give you more energy and in no way shape or form, will they make your muscles bigger or smaller etc. The way your muscles become bigger is through stretching them (via weights exercises/gym etc), and like a rubber band - if you stretch it extensively and release it, it doesn't reform its original shape. It appears not have the same elasticity as before.

Man, it looks like you really don't know what you're talking about.
First and foremost, protein is the building block of you/our/everyones' muscle tissue, and thats what its used for once in the body. However, there are cases when its used for energy, but THATS NOT THE GENERAL CASE! Protein is converted to energy only if the caloric intake of your body is low. Proteins, WILL NOT make your muscles smaller.

Second, your muscles DON'T become bigger by streching, they become STRECHED by streching. When you work out and you exert a lot of force thereby straining your muscle tissue, that in turn causes it to RIP. Once you go home and rest your body heals its muscles and adds more tissue to it (a very small ammount daily) to adapt to the new conditions your body is facing ie GOING TO THE GYM

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Failed at becoming a god...

I think it all boils down to how serious you are in the gym and what are your objectives and goals and how bad you want them. I myself train 6 days a week religiously without supplementation whey,casien,protein,creatine,tribulus,creatine,hmb,these to me are basics that anyone serious in the gym would not fully benefit without the use of. I also include almost 2 gallons of purified water a day to keep my body as clean as possible water.

As far as Muscle recovery supplements go(after your workout has ceased). L-glutamine,1-2 grams of creatine,and a scoop on Nitro-tech I have found that these 3 items aid in quickest muscle recovery not to mention the incredible pump you recieve the following moring after you have gotten a good 7-8 hours of sleep. Talk to any bodybuilder or fitness professional diet,nutrition,and supplementation is 70% of the battle the other 30 % proper form,technique,and maximun muscle resistance(pushing yourself to the limit physically& mentally. In my personal opinion going to the gym without supplementation is a waste of time you will never ever look your best! but again that is just my opinion.
Peace,Love,and Hairgrease

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Those That See The Invisible,Accomplish The Impossible

Run away from anything Muscle Tech makes, they have been caught lying on their labels a number of times... They are great at marketing but they are shady with their products.

Stick with quality names like EAS, Weider, etc.../Posted by Thor

Thor I think you need to become a little more educated about Muscletech before you make these statements.Besides EAS(Experiemental& Applied Sciences) Muscletech is one of the few Nutrition Companys who will send you an independant Lab Analysis on anyone of there products,basically showing you there products are 99.9 pecent pure while most other companys products come in like 95 pecent pure. Muscletech also uses top quality ingredients in all of there products where alot of other companys Optimum,Weider,etc. use cheaper methods to cut costs and supposibly save the customer money. The end result a poorly made supplement which tastes terrible,never works like it supposed to ,and harse on digestion. I know that they do Boost up some of there claims like there product being 3000 times stronger than others they have to compete with a billion other Nutrition companys out there so whatever strategys they use more power to em. Bottomline is Muscletech stacks work! and Nitrotech is my only protein/nitrogen supplement source. In the world of supplements and nutrition you really do get what you pay for!

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Those That See The Invisible,Accomplish The Impossible