quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd How so? Just curious. I kind of agree, but it's more of a hunch, I wanted to see some facts.

I don't have any study that confirms this and I'm not inclined to search for it (although I'm sure someone has concluded this before).

I made this conclusion based on several things. First, I remember hearing about this issue while I was in college (i.e., the high number of PhDs being pumped out doesn't mean they are high quality PhDs). Second, they spend less money per student (not per person) than western countries. Third, western countries are years ahead in educational methodologies, strategies, and knowledge. Fourth, thousands of indians and chinese come to the US and europe to study, whereas, almost no americans or europeans go to india or china to study (which just shows the attitudes of the students in those countries about the education received in the US/Europe as compared to their home countries - not to the actual quality of the education). Fourth, major achievements are still occurring in western countries and not in the apparent 'arising powers.' Each of the arising powers is actually filling a niche for western countries (i.e., india being an outsourcing location for relatively low skill professional services because they speak english, and china for cheap manufacturing of products being engineered in europe and india. Also russia and brazil being natural resource providers). When india and china actually start making major NEW achievements, then you know their educational system is having a significant impact and can be compared on equal footing. Lastly, every major publication that ranks schools consistently ranks US and UK institutions as the preminent in the world. Chinese and indian schools don't even touch mid tier US schools in rankings (that could be because of english bias, but even a china ranking source places US schools way above chinese schools). Lastly, in order to pump out the millions of PhDs china does in a year, they have to sacrifice quality for quantity. In almost everything, quality and quantity are inversely related.

Such a long article and no mention of turn-of-the-century textiles? Did I just miss it? Great Britain began tumbling once they let Asian countries in on the sewing machine. Then they relinquished control over territories in Asia (though not necessarily at their own choosing).

The inevitability of greed and unchecked avarice led to the conceit of an empire, as it always does, and nobody was willing to admit it was the beginning of the end. Same old song, really.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 there is nothing uglier or more unpleasant than listening to indians speak any language.

not only do we speak our language but also beat English speaking natives in their own spelling competitions. Pathetic.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd I have just the article for you: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/co...icle4198642.ece A person of your own ethnicity, an Indian columnist at The Times, wrote this:

And what is he saying ? We are good at being "nerds" and we need to excel in sports. Which sports ? Do you know how much money the Indian Premier League (cricket) generates ? IPL predicts an income of over $ 1.6 Billion over a period of 5-10 years. Sony has signed a deal for over 1 Billion over 10 years, for TV rights. That's just one business partner. This may not be near what the football leagues generate, but god damn, that's an obscene amount of Indian money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Premier_League

An Indian is the current world champion in Chess...some of the finest Cricket players are from India, We are already into Formula 1, We have already started winning Olympic medals..isn't this a good start ?

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 .....and when i call customer service, I know your name isn't jennifer, bitch! It sounds really nice to say that india is going to be a great power, but the reality is its population is way to large to sustain a high standard of living for all those people (thus, there will be huge income disparities, which likely will lead to civil unrest). Furthermore, Indias only real advantage over other 3rd world countries is that the people speak english, not pretty or even well, but it's an advantage nonetheless. their engineers don't receive the same education as students from europe, the US, and canada. The educational systems in India (and China) pump out PHds, but not of the same quality. one last comment, why the hell do indians have their own smell? It's nasty.

Yeah well, the Jennifer on this side is making money talking to you and the Jennifer on that side has been laid off...who's the winner ? You really don't have a clue of how things work here. There's already a tremendous amount of disparity in terms of economic wealth. There are 2 Indians in top 10 rich people in the world. And India has massive amount of poverty. Which country tops in Swiss Bank deposits ? Hint, it's not the US or Russia or China...Indians have personal deposits worth $ 1600 Billion in Swiss bank. How much fucking money is this ? Ok, that's a lot of black money, but we're not gona speak of corruption here. No civil unrest yet seen in the country.

http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=137213

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 I don't have any study that confirms this and I'm not inclined to search for it (although I'm sure someone has concluded this before). I made this conclusion based on several things. First, I remember hearing about this issue while I was in college (i.e., the high number of PhDs being pumped out doesn't mean they are high quality PhDs). Second, they spend less money per student (not per person) than western countries. Third, western countries are years ahead in educational methodologies, strategies, and knowledge. Fourth, thousands of indians and chinese come to the US and europe to study, whereas, almost no americans or europeans go to india or china to study (which just shows the attitudes of the students in those countries about the education received in the US/Europe as compared to their home countries - not to the actual quality of the education). Fourth, major achievements are still occurring in western countries and not in the apparent 'arising powers.' Each of the arising powers is actually filling a niche for western countries (i.e., india being an outsourcing location for relatively low skill professional services because they speak english, and china for cheap manufacturing of products being engineered in europe and india. Also russia and brazil being natural resource providers). When india and china actually start making major NEW achievements, then you know their educational system is having a significant impact and can be compared on equal footing. Lastly, every major publication that ranks schools consistently ranks US and UK institutions as the preminent in the world. Chinese and indian schools don't even touch mid tier US schools in rankings (that could be because of english bias, but even a china ranking source places US schools way above chinese schools). Lastly, in order to pump out the millions of PhDs china does in a year, they have to sacrifice quality for quantity. In almost everything, quality and quantity are inversely related.

Yeah well, you don't have a fucking clue.

First, India has one of the finest Engineering Institutes (IIT) which graduates some of the brightest brains in the world. But not with a M.S or PhD degree, but with a bachelor's degree. These graduates are sought by institutes like MIT and Stanford, where they graduate with Masters and PhDs. So what would you say regarding the quality of education we receive? It's not just the Indian Institutes of Technology graduates that go to US to seek higher and quality education. Anybody with a good GRE score can go to the US and work on an RA and complete his education, without having to pay a lot of money.

So your second, third and fourth points really don't mean anything. We don't study in our own country. We study in US and Europe and seek the finest education we can get.

Fifth, (your fourth again, did you fail at high school math ?) Many Indian students stay back and go on to become professors and researchers in universities / high tech companies. They have contributed tremendously to what you would term as "major achievements in the western countries".

If you think we are filling niches for western countries, think again. Without India and China, your companies would be no where. It's mutually beneficial. And it's called doing profitable business.

Again you talk about our schools and again I'll tell you, we don't sacrifice quality for quantity. We are smart, we come over to the US

Bottom line is, with all its shortcomings, India is fast emerging as a key global player. The dominance across all economic and political landscapes is going to increase. Learn to live with it. You can argue as much as you want against it and point out all the wrong things about India, but these facts will not change. Start learning Hinglish.

___________________

Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

They are clearly a despicable species that should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M not only do we speak our language but also beat English speaking natives in their own spelling competitions. Pathetic.

perhaps, but when you do it sounds like an old car that is running of fumes. there is almost nothing more unpleasant than listening to an indian speak. uhhhhhhhhhh.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Yeah well, the Jennifer on this side is making money talking to you and the Jennifer on that side has been laid off...who's the winner ?

unemployment insurance pays more than jennifer is making. so, who is the winner really?

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Originally posted by Omega_M You really don't have a clue of how things work here. There's already a tremendous amount of disparity in terms of economic wealth. There are 2 Indians in top 10 rich people in the world. And India has massive amount of poverty. Which country tops in Swiss Bank deposits ? Hint, it's not the US or Russia or China...Indians have personal deposits worth $ 1600 Billion in Swiss bank. How much fucking money is this ? Ok, that's a lot of black money, but we're not gona speak of corruption here. No civil unrest yet seen in the country.

because the prosperity is new. wait until the effects set in. people still have aspirations. when those aspirations don't come to fruition for a generation or two, people will not be so complacent.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Yeah well, you don't have a fucking clue. First, India has one of the finest Engineering Institutes (IIT) which graduates some of the brightest brains in the world. But not with a M.S or PhD degree, but with a bachelor's degree. These graduates are sought by institutes like MIT and Stanford, where they graduate with Masters and PhDs. So what would you say regarding the quality of education we receive? It's not just the Indian Institutes of Technology graduates that go to US to seek higher and quality education. Anybody with a good GRE score can go to the US and work on an RA and complete his education, without having to pay a lot of money.

if IIT was so good why do their graduates seek a better education in the US? You clearly don't understand the point I was making.

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Originally posted by Omega_M So your second, third and fourth points really don't mean anything. We don't study in our own country. We study in US and Europe and seek the finest education we can get.

and thus you prove my point.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Fifth, (your fourth again, did you fail at high school math ?) Many Indian students stay back and go on to become professors and researchers in universities / high tech companies. They have contributed tremendously to what you would term as "major achievements in the western countries".

i said india, not indians. and what does math have to do with that?

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Originally posted by Omega_M If you think we are filling niches for western countries, think again. Without India and China, your companies would be no where. It's mutually beneficial. And it's called doing profitable business.

i don't disagree that your country fills an important role. that role, however, is a niche: low cost english speaking, low level skilled service positions (i.e., outsouring non-essential non-client facing service professionals, and relatively unimportant [in the organizational aspect] skilled professionals [i.e., not nuclear physists.]). No one in the US likes dealing with Indians (and i am force to all the time because of our outsourcing operation).

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Originally posted by Omega_M Again you talk about our schools and again I'll tell you, we don't sacrifice quality for quantity. We are smart, we come over to the US

learn to distinguish between india the institution and indians the people. i never said you weren't smart.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Bottom line is, with all its shortcomings, India is fast emerging as a key global player. The dominance across all economic and political landscapes is going to increase. Learn to live with it. You can argue as much as you want against it and point out all the wrong things about India, but these facts will not change. Start learning Hinglish.

i'll learn hinglish when your women shave their arms pits and the men wear deordorant. i don't like the smell of sweaty curry.

well, as someone who was born and lived in india for the first 14 years of his life, i have to say that although there are a few exceptionally good universities (the IIT chain of schools), for the most part, the educational system in india does need a major upgrade.

things might have changed in the last 11 years that i've been out of the country, but i can tell you that at least when i was in school there, the emphasis was entirely on learning by rote, instead of critical thinking. and i went to a pretty decent english school in bombay, too. history, geography, even languages, were all taught by having students memorize stuff and then regurgitate all that material on tests. never once did i have to write a critical essay on a novel, or write a paper analysing some historical occurrence/trend. i didnt even know how to really write until i started going to high school here.

as for the quality of the technical education, that too is pretty sub-standard (the IIT chain of schools once again are an exception). i know this because when i was in college as an undergrad, i had many friends from india pursuing their master's degrees in computer science. they'd all tell me that the stuff they teach even in an average university (where i was doing my undergrad in Comp. Sci. + Engr.) at the UNDERGRAD level far surpassed anything that indian schools taught even at the GRAD level. once, this chic i was friends with needed help writing a basic console app in c/c++ to sort a list! and she was pursuing her MASTERs in comp. sci...needless to say, i was shocked!

again i should point out that things have probably changed for the better and will continue to do so as time goes by and as the country gets more exposure to foreign educational institutions. alot of top schools from the US and UK are in fact keen on opening (and i think have already opened) branches there, which can only benefit the country. however i do think it will be a while before the education system as a whole catches up to whats available in the west/europe/australia.

and finally, everything i just wrote is not meant to imply that indians are dumb, many of the smartest/wealthiest ppl. around are indians. im merely talking abt the country and its education system.

good read, thanks for posting

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 perhaps, but when you do it sounds like an old car that is running of fumes. there is almost nothing more unpleasant than listening to an indian speak. uhhhhhhhhhh. unemployment insurance pays more than jennifer is making. so, who is the winner really? because the prosperity is new. wait until the effects set in. people still have aspirations. when those aspirations don't come to fruition for a generation or two, people will not be so complacent. if IIT was so good why do their graduates seek a better education in the US? You clearly don't understand the point I was making. and thus you prove my point. i said india, not indians. and what does math have to do with that? i don't disagree that your country fills an important role. that role, however, is a niche: low cost english speaking, low level skilled service positions (i.e., outsouring non-essential non-client facing service professionals, and relatively unimportant [in the organizational aspect] skilled professionals [i.e., not nuclear physists.]). No one in the US likes dealing with Indians (and i am force to all the time because of our outsourcing operation). learn to distinguish between india the institution and indians the people. i never said you weren't smart. i'll learn hinglish when your women shave their arms pits and the men wear deordorant. i don't like the smell of sweaty curry.

You've started this whole thing on a racist note and it's only gotten worse. You are not worth my time spent in writing anything else in defense. Live with your preconceived, racist and wrong notions about India. It's not gona change the reality which you clearly fail to grasp.

___________________

Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M You've started this whole thing on a racist note

why is it racist to make a statement of fact that generally holds true? in general, indians don't follow the same hygenic routine as americans (obviously, not every indian is the same, but in my experience meeting indians, which is extensive, that conclusion holds true many more times than not). It is no more racist to say this than it is to say an african american's skin is black. Perhaps I shouldn't have said it, but that doesn't make me racist. It makes me insensitive. I have nothing against indians. in fact, i would totally give it to that indian chick from slumdog millionaire.

as for my comments about the audio unpleasantness of listening to an indian, so fucking what? that's my opinion, and it doesn't make me racist. You PC tools need to calm the F down. It's perfectly cool for foreigners to say americans are fat, arrogant, uneducated idiots, but the moment we say something about another culture/country we're racist, blah blah blah. grow some skin!

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Originally posted by Omega_M and it's only gotten worse. You are not worth my time spent in writing anything else in defense. Live with your preconceived, racist and wrong notions about India. It's not gona change the reality which you clearly fail to grasp.

Please dude, indians who aren't ulra nationalist will say that american (and other western) educational institutions are better, and you even said as much in your weak responses. I was responding to a comment about an opinion I made in reference to the quality of education in india/china. You decided to chime in and offer arguments that were neither relevant nor refuted anything I said. You actually offered more support for my conclusion (i.e., that indians go to US schools to receive the best education). So, learn to analyze written communications and stfu if you don't understand what you are reading.

It's about time Crackas begin to lose their influence. All the raping, colonizing and pillaging done by the white race is hilariously being thrown back at them, evident by the growing muslim takeover of Europe.

there go Americans and their press degrading one of their closest allies once more. Kind of like how you never hear how the Brits or Canadians get killed in Afghanistan or Iraq.

British world power peaked nearly a century ago. WW1 hugely indebted the nation as well as permanently altered public attitudes, contributing to depression, disarmament and social upheaval until WW2, which basically bankrupt the British Empire and paved the way for the emergence of the new superpowers and something called the Cold War. This is not news, it's called documented history.

Britain has, since the end of WW2 - and especially since the 1950s after the Suez Canal fiasco - been a lesser or middle power. Yet let's not forget Britain was the third nation on the plant to obtain nuclear weapons and its military, although much smaller in comparison to the USA, Russia or China, for example, is still one of the best in the world. Its intelligence services are also efficient and heavily involved in international affairs.

Anyone who believes that the British nation is in any more serious decline than the United States has blinders on. American global and economic power has very likely peaked. How exactly do Americans think they can still hang on to the grip on the world's affiars as long as they have with all the current debt and finance issues? Other aforementioned nations are emerging, the world is changing very rapidly. China, India, Japan and Russia want to be on the Moon's surface again by 2020 and we could very well have another space race on our hands. Where's all the money going to come from, eh?

In fact, you could even argue the USA is veering leftish the same way British attitudes veered left after World War Two and essentially brought in socialised medicine and direct government control of industry. Some parallels are there if you actually look. Anyway, the point here is that Americans are in for a bit of a reality check in the coming generation. This affects me too, since I live in the nice comfortable bubble in the western world.

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"

Last edited by Dj Smitty20 on Aug-21-2009 at 05:36

>>Hakka Cuisine<<

Some tasty stuff man....I got hooked a few years back when I first met my (now) good friends that came from Kolkata (formerly Calcutta) in the 90s.
One of them is going back to Kolkata this Dec. with his fiance who's never been to India.
From the stories I've heard of people doing your laundry/dishes/yardwork/etc. makes me wonder why they ever came to Canada...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."