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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I think that tells us just about everything we need to know.... sorry, Adam, there is more to Toronto then downtown and the kind of Toronto you want only works between Spadina and Jarvis from Lakeshore to St. Clair. Honestly, how anyone can profess to have all the answers and then completely write off the rest of the country is beyond me. What an elitist asshole!

Wouldn't you agree that Toronto, and the areas which lie within GTA yet without Toronto are different?

Why would you expect solutions that work in the downtown core to function outside of the core?

Adam Vaughan is the city councillor for Trinity-Spadina which is the downtown core. Implementing policies appropriate for the suburbs in the core would destroy Toronto, and Adam Vaughan has no business recommending policy for areas outside Ward 20.

I agree that politicians should be criticized when they're wrong, but I haven't read an example of Adam Vaughan acting inappropriately given his specific job, in this thread.

He's going after clubland, yet the majority of those on this board (EDM fans) wouldn't set foot in clubland on a Friday or Saturday night. I certainly have no interest in being there (I would argue that Footy, Guv, Basement, CZ, etc. are outside clubland - the notable exception being Vola I think).

In the light of other world-class cities (if Toronto can even be considered such) like Paris, New York, London, etc., the reason people love those cities are many of the same reasons and directions Adam Vaughan wants to take Toronto. Small independent restaurants, bars, and cafes. A strong (classical) cultural community i.e. art galleries, theatre, etc. A strong sense of local community like Little Italy and The Danforth.

You won't find a politician that you agree with 100%. At least Vaughan is working toward putting Toronto on the Globe, and he seems to truly appreciate what makes this city great and unique.

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers In the light of other world-class cities (if Toronto can even be considered such) like Paris, New York, London, etc., the reason people love those cities are many of the same reasons and directions Adam Vaughan wants to take Toronto. Small independent restaurants, bars, and cafes. A strong (classical) cultural community i.e. art galleries, theatre, etc. A strong sense of local community like Little Italy and The Danforth.

Ridiculous. Those things are the reason tourists love those cities. They're great if you're in town for maybe a week. What makes them good places to live (except maybe Paris, which is kind of a shitty place to live) is economic activity, night life, and major urban infrastructure. All things that Adam Vaughan rails against nonstop. And without those things, you can't have your quaint little cafés and community events, at least not with any sort of authenticity.

What you've described is a really warped view of those other cities. It's a description of what they were like and what Toronto was like more than 50 years ago, and maybe what a few walled-off (figuratively) touristy areas still try to be like. The world has changed. Downtown Toronto, and downtown anything, can't support or even survive that vision. It's the heart of commerce and entertainment in Toronto, some would say in Ontario or even in all of Canada. Hell, that's where Canada's main stock exchange is. Downtown is about business.

If you want colonialism, do it in the suburbs. In fact, a lot of the things you're describing already exist out here. Lots of independent restaurants and boutiques, strong sense of community. What we don't have is clubs and bars.

Adam Vaughan isn't merely an asshole, he's a fossil. He's still living in the past, and anything that reminds him of the present infuriates him to the extent that he feels he has to destroy it.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Until these arrogant fools (residents included) realize that the GTA and downtown need each other and need to be symbiotic with each other, our whole city will continue its rotting decay. Look at cities that work like London, Hong Kong, Paris, etc. There is no such thing as a border when it comes to common service like transit and police. Its all within the greater metropolitan area that overlaps borders.

If Adam Vaughan wants to be the mayor of a small town, then he should go there and do it. But please stop trying to turn toronto into a compact vertical ARROGANT small town with homeless people. Its a city and should be treated like one.

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers Wouldn't you agree that Toronto, and the areas which lie within GTA yet without Toronto are different? Why would you expect solutions that work in the downtown core to function outside of the core? Adam Vaughan is the city councillor for Trinity-Spadina which is the downtown core. Implementing policies appropriate for the suburbs in the core would destroy Toronto, and Adam Vaughan has no business recommending policy for areas outside Ward 20.

Of course parts of Toronto vary greatly from parts of the larger GTA. The problem with Vaughn is that he is pushing for city policies to shape the ENTIRE CITY in ways that may work for the downtown core but do not work for the rest of the city. For example; tearing down the Gardner may be great for the people who live downtown but it has potential to be a nightmare for everyone else. Creating street car right of ways will be good for people who live and work along the street car line but will be terrible for anyone that is not properly serviced by transit and therefore elects to drive. The long and short of it is that this joker has a frame of referrence that only includes a 10 block radius from city hall and thinks that what works in that radius can be imposed on the rest of the city and will benefit same... it simply won't work... the kind of Toronto Vaughn wants only works for people who have the luxury of enjoying it... which is to say people with large amounts of disposable income... which is to say a very small percentage of people.... honestly, do you believe many people in the city have the luxury of starting off their day with esspresso and fresh pastries at a french bakery followed by a liesurly stroll and a tour of the art gallery (I'll not bother to bring Chippys into this because I simply don't believe that Vaughn would eat fish and chips out of a paper cup, nor do I believe that he was anything but fearful when walking through Alexandra park).

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers Small independent restaurants, bars, and cafes. A strong (classical) cultural community i.e. art galleries, theatre, etc.

sounds like a douchebag's heaven.

whatever happened to balance? plus i think he is just a hypocrite. why did the development of Ossington South stop? that was a perfect place to put a whole bunch of different types of cultural spots.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Of course parts of Toronto vary greatly from parts of the larger GTA. The problem with Vaughn is that he is pushing for city policies to shape the ENTIRE CITY in ways that may work for the downtown core but do not work for the rest of the city. For example; tearing down the Gardner may be great for the people who live downtown but it has potential to be a nightmare for everyone else. Creating street car right of ways will be good for people who live and work along the street car line but will be terrible for anyone that is not properly serviced by transit and therefore elects to drive.

The two examples you mentioned are issues that lie within or very close to Adam Vaughan's ward. So, how about examples of him imposing his downtown core will upon the suburbs as you are attempting the reverse in the above quoted text.

I don't think many architects and city planners will disagree about tearing down the Gardner. It is an awful eyesore and cuts off the downtown core from our beautiful waterfront. Admittedly, tearing it down will be trying on the city, but it was a mistake to begin with and it needs to be rectified.

As far as street car lanes, again a sticky problem. Toronto was not built to be the monstrous city that it has become. I drive to and from the suburbs directly into the core three times per week. Cities like Brampton and Mississauga were made for drivers. Toronto streets were originally layed out when Toronto was a lot smaller. We have inherited these problems from city planners with awful foresight many many years ago.

Fixing a bad transit system does not mean abandoning it. The city must evolve.

You're seeing the problem from the perspective of someone who lives outside the city. I don't claim to understand the needs of those in the suburbs, but I interact with the core's streets nearly every single day.

Try and see the problems from the perspective of those who live, work AND pay taxes within those areas.

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess sounds like a douchebag's heaven. whatever happened to balance? plus i think he is just a hypocrite. why did the development of Ossington South stop? that was a perfect place to put a whole bunch of different types of cultural spots.

Douchbag heaven? Despite your marginalizing subsequent comments based on this one, tell us about another world class city that is void of galleries, restaurants and cafes, cultural heritage, etc. One good example would be good.

New York, London, Paris, etc. are very well known for all of these things, plus their great night life (clubs and bars).

Ossington South had a 1-year moratorium placed upon new restaurants as the city decided the area was growing too rapidly. Local residents were complaining of noise and crowds at all hours.

It seems that the rapid growth in that area took the city planners off guard and they hadn't come up with hard rules about what was allowed where. Reasonable and sustained growth builds a strong area. The brightest candle burns the quickest.

I don't see the moratorium destroying that area. It will continue to grow once the city decides on some rules which allow the residents to continue to enjoy their community.

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers The two examples you mentioned are issues that lie within or very close to Adam Vaughan's ward. So, how about examples of him imposing his downtown core will upon the suburbs as you are attempting the reverse in the above quoted text. You're seeing the problem from the perspective of someone who lives outside the city. I don't claim to understand the needs of those in the suburbs, but I interact with the core's streets nearly every single day. Try and see the problems from the perspective of those who live, work AND pay taxes within those areas.

What... those two issues DO effect the entire city, not just the core. BTW, I also interact with the cores streets nearly every single day (or at least I did until recently) so I do understand. Additionally... people who live in Rexdale, North York, Scarborough, etc. are just as much part of the city as those that live in the privileged world of Adam Vaughn.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers Despite your marginalizing subsequent comments based on this one, tell us about another world class city that is void of galleries, restaurants and cafes, cultural heritage, etc. One good example would be good.

You're repeating yourself without acknowledging other people's responses. Those things are all fine and dandy in moderation. Vaughan wants ONLY those things, which is neither desirable nor sustainable. Anything that impinges on his quaint little colonial daydream makes him angry.

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Reasonable and sustained growth builds a strong area. The brightest candle burns the quickest.

Nice little cliché there, but unfortunately vague analogies do not comprise a proof. Economy is not a zero-sum game. In reality, artificially-limited growth is vastly inferior to ordinary slow growth because it prevents a natural equilibrium of supply and demand.

Cities can easily prosper in the long-term from short-term explosive growth as long as the infrastructure is expanded to keep up. If it grows faster than expected, you expand the infrastructure on a faster timeline than originally planned, you don't pull the rug out from under the residents, businesses, developers and consumers. Unless you want a half-functioning city, that is.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The problem with Vaughn is that he is pushing for city policies to shape the ENTIRE CITY in ways that may work for the downtown core but do not work for the rest of the city.

I would abandon this line of reasoning. Rest assured that the policies he pushes for are/would be every bit as damaging to downtown as they would be to other parts of the GTA.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Here's a stellar post off of blogTO that I read. It captures the essence of what is going on underneath him. Good read for those unaware of the situation.

Posted by "EpicFail" on blogTO

"I use to like Adam Vaughan, but not anymore. I live in the Annex and manage a club in the Entertainment District. Toronto has worked very hard to have a fantastic night life. I think that we have a great one, and next to London and New York, I believe that we rank number three in theatre plays in the world.

Just because Adam Vaughan was brought up in Toronto, was a reporter and his father was a councilor for City of Toronto, does not mean he understands the mechanics of Toronto.

AV wanted to gate the lane ways. I thought that was a joke.

Regarding the Entertainment District, the city gave them an entire area and ever since the condos came up Adam Vaughan has taken the side of the residents and is constantly bashing the clubs and bars in that area. People need to take ownership of where they decide to live. Take responsibility for your decision otherwise move. Adam may not be aware, but he is actually enemy number one in the Entertainment District.

He is also involved in taking a personal vendetta in a club (Comfort Zone) and as a result there is a law suit pending on the City of Toronto and the club has gone as far as suing AV personally.

Then there’s the Annex. Futures and the Labyrinth late night patios are the main reason that made the Annex successful and are considered holy grounds. Those patios are not some ordinary patios but the pride and joy of the Annex. Due to a patio transfer in the ownership, a committee was formed to discuss patio hours. All was going well until a small group of residents decided to go against the committee and approach Adam V. about their concerns. As a result, he did the same thing as for the Entertainment District and took the side of the residents. Now, Futures patio is only open until 11pm and no patio for the Labyrinth. Everyone is pissed off at Adam V. for listening to a small group of people as opposed to the overwhelming support for those late night patios. Now, Adam is becoming enemy number one in the Annex.

The other issue is when he chewed out a reporter on the subject of the infestation in China Town; I don’t think many people appreciated his brash way of speaking.

I also don’t like his take on having the City of Toronto setting aside funds for defamation. My view is that if you are a politician, you need to be aware of the harsh criticism that comes along with it. Especially, if you are like AV and make silly comments, then you should be prepared to have people on your back. The underlying reason people criticize is because they are passionate. AV is slowly becoming enemy number one in Toronto

The above items are surely a sore point for him and the reason he gets bashed a lot.

He is losing the respect of a lot of Torontonians due to his own accord, his comments, his lack of diplomacy or finesse, and for being a hypocrite. I hope he continues to do what he’s doing so he will have a short political career. So, looking at Toronto through the eyes of AV is not that spectacular."

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You're repeating yourself without acknowledging other people's responses. Those things are all fine and dandy in moderation. Vaughan wants ONLY those things, which is neither desirable nor sustainable.

that's exactly what i was trying to say. the city needs a balance of different things for different people.

i am all for having little cafes and galleries throughout the city especially when they celebrate the diversity of toronto. but i also need a grocery store, a drug store, a dollar store, a dive bar, a patio, a club, a park, easy way to get around... the list goes on.

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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers Douchbag heaven? Despite your marginalizing subsequent comments based on this one, tell us about another world class city that is void of galleries, restaurants and cafes, cultural heritage, etc. One good example would be good. New York, London, Paris, etc. are very well known for all of these things, plus their great night life (clubs and bars).

i don't know what you were trying to say with these statements but you are contradicting yourself. all those cities have all the cultural things plus the other things that cities need. New York = good transit system which Toronto doesn't have, London = great nightlife which AV wants to shut down in Toronto, Paris = great restaurants with patios which AV wants to get rid of too.


trust me. i never said that i want no galleries, little restaurants, or any of these things. i enjoy them a lot throughout the city. i love going to the opera. i live beside 2 galleries. but there are other things that make a city work.