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| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Yes lets put it in perspective, and pay attention to the facts, which I know get in the way of the Left's template to sweep all things negative towards Obama/Democrats under the rug. |
Yeah, that must be why when his numbers were falling in the polls, the majority of those falling numbers were comprised of Democrats and Independents who were pissed off at him for not following through with his campaign promises - because we want to sweep all negative things away from him...right.
Jesus, of all the people and groups who knew full well how to do that, the irony from your Limbaugh extremists really cannot be overlooked....
| quote: | Their history of voter fraud, tax evasion, embezzlement, goes back a lot further than this year. So, yes it is obvious that it's a systemic problem... obvious to those who read publications outside of MoveOn.org, the HuffPo, and Kos. For instance:
1) They take 40% of their revenues from taxpayers. Read this article with factual links to their fradulent voter registration dealings and how their money tree operates... and this was just as of 2004!
http://www.nationalreview.com/comme...00410311142.asp |
So let's examine this a bit closer and compare. As Greenwald depicted in the article I gave you to which I highly doubt you even fucking bothered to read:
| quote: | | ACORN has received a grand total of $53 million in federal funds over the last 15 years -- an average of $3.5 million per year. Meanwhile, not millions, not billions, but trillions of dollars of public funds have been, in the last year alone, transferred to or otherwise used for the benefit of Wall Street. Billions of dollars in American taxpayer money vanished into thin air, eaten by private contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan, led by Halliburton subsidiary KBR. |
So again I say, fucking puleease. 3.5 mill versus tens of billions of $ that's been essentially swept away from companies that didn't even have to compete for their bids in 2 different wars under Bush (and yes, under Obama as well), not to mention the tens of billions that's been given away not just under TARP but under laws passed by Republican legislatures (and yes, some Democrats went along with it as well) that essentially allowed Wall Street to govern itself. Congress rightfully pulled the funds to ACORN pending a further investigation, which I'm sure you are aware of.
But what I want to know is where was all your outrage along with your Conservative bretheren, i.e. in the neocon circles, at all the money thrown and seemingly disappearing to defense contracts? Do you really want to get in a pissing match with me on how much of our taxpayer money has REALLY been thrown down the drain in that regard, all because of a Republican Administration and their neocon allies wanting an endless war, AND which so many of them coincidentally made gigantic profits from? By all means, let's compare if you like.
A problem to which Citibank, WellsFargo, and any other mortgage group could easily remedy by requiring ID status of these individuals that came from the initial ACORN screening. Why are you not blaming these companies as well for allowing this to happen? Because it's all ACORN's fault again?
| quote: | 3) Forced to purge 1.3 million votes from their roles in 2008 nationwide. Pleaded guilty in Seattle for voter fraud (largest case uncovered in Washington's history), and have been indicted for the same in Ohio, New Mexico, Missouri, and 7 more states. This is 2007. And right after the Seattle conviction, Senator Bob Casey (D-PA) offered a bill to give them more money. wtf?
http://seattletimes.nwsourc...syndication=rss |
I'm pretty certain we've discussed this issue here before, and surely you know the difference between voter registration and actually voting, right? Despite those individuals who misused the program to get extra voter registrations, as we discussed here and I'm pretty sure you were involved with that discussion, none of those illegal registrations turned into actual votes. And please also remember that it was ACORN who turned in these voter registration frauds in the first place.
And Limbaugh used his fucking maid to get his Oxycontin. How is this one person an example of an systemic problem? Are you accusing ALL of ACORN workers being crackheads now, all 13,000 canvass workers?
I'm also certain that no Blackwater, Halliburton, or any subcontractor over in Iraq has never been caught using illicit drugs either, right? Or any worker from AIG?
| quote: | 5) Obama's campaigned funneled an $800,000 payment to an ACORN front group called "Citizen Services, Inc." for "campaign advance work"... which Obama's administration says is no big deal. Yet once uncovered he had to "amend" the financial report because they were "mistaken" as to the services CSI would provide.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pit...n/s_584284.html |
No, Obama said the nature of CSI's services was misrepresented on his campaign disclosures to the FEC, and they described it as an oversight. If you can truly demonstrate otherwise, present your evidence now. It's also noted that this was during the primaries and not the general election.
As for the charge, Politifact notes:
| quote: | During the third presidential debate, McCain made the additional charge that the Obama campaign directed campaign money to ACORN, calling the group "the same front outfit organization that your campaign gave $832,000 for 'lighting and site selection.'"
Here's what we know about that allegation: The Obama campaign paid a group called Citizens' Services $832,386 during the primaries. (For comparison, the Obama campaign has spent an overall $391-million through August 2008.) Some of the expenditures are listed as sound, stage and lighting, and others are listed as get-out-the-vote efforts. ACORN has said Citizens Services subcontracted out part of the get-out-the-vote work to ACORN, but ACORN officials say it was "a small amount." The Obama campaign said it paid Citizens' Services, who in turn paid $80,000 to ACORN. The two groups share offices in New Orleans.
We can confirm through campaign finance public records that Obama paid Citizens' Services, but we can't independently confirm what part of the contract ACORN actually received, so we are not ruling on that statement. We're including the facts of the matter here for our readers to consider for themselves.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...th-obama-acorn/ |
Again I await anxiously for direct evidence that demonstrates his guilt of association here.
Oh for fucking fuck's sake, you loony, stupid son of a bitch, 17. Did you go to her website and read some of her conspiracy shit that she wrote? Jesus, another tie to the wonderful Community Reinvestment Act and how all those poor people that ACORN must have helped out just crashed the subprime system, right?
Fuck, do we have to go over this shit again so you and Anita might get a bit of a grasp on what happened? Again, the main culprit of the scandal was the result of those entities not covered by the CRA, i.e. the nonbank mortgage companies who grabbed the bulk of the mortgage market out of the hands of CRA-regulated banking companies. Only 6% of the subprime loans made by CRA-lenders went to low income borrowers, while 60% went to middle and high income borrowers:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newse...er20081203a.htm
Nonbank mortgage industries not covered by the CRA had some 50% of the subprime loans:
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hear.../barr021308.pdf
and another 30% were created by nonbank subsidiaries.
So let's break down that 6% of subprime loans. I'm sure ACORN had a part in that, no doubt. But is that even a worthy fucking comparison to the builking that was done by these nonbank mortgage entities that were not regulated, thanks to the likes of Phil Gramm and his lovely world of deregulation via the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999.
And of course she had to invoke Fannie and Freddie, which has little to do with this shit:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/o...r=1&oref=slogin
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2...ain-blame-game/
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/07/new...sion=2008090712
But she and you are welcome to continue blaming the poor and ACORN for this financial mess, evidence be damned I suppose. Not like you ever listened to anyone else besides what Limbaugh or Hot Air spoon feeds you anyway.
And where is her evidence that ACORN housing is a so-called landlord? Is this even verifiable at all?
I'm sorry, perhaps she does have some pertinent information, but she really did herself a major disservice trumping these dicredited GOP talking points.
| quote: | 7) NY Times story which was buried until right after the election, even though the reporter pushed for it to be in print well before that... exposing the illegality of ACORN's "project vote" and its ties to Obama's people.
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=h...Q3EfhQ7EeuyQ5CV |
Yeah, I liked that story myself, especially the part about the election fraud lawyer, Heather Heidelbaugh:
| quote: | | Heidelbaugh, who worked for the Penn. Republican State Committee in a vote fraud lawsuit against ACORN... |
Huh, so a Republican election-disrupting attorney discovered a problem that's based on her insider's unverifiable "insider information"
I think you mean Employment POLICIES Institute. Well I'm running low on time, and I think I've dissected most of your tripe as it is. I'll just leave this last link on that group which demonstrates they're quite the interesting group in their own right:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...icies_Institute
| quote: | | It just goes on an on and on.... |
Only in your extremist Conservative circles, that is.
| quote: | | again, all of the above doesn't even include the videos that came out last week, or the new ones coming out this week- they were never turned away from any offices in which they entered asking for illegal help. I bet you haven't even watched the videos. It is a systemic problem undoubtedly, and ACORN needs to be completely dissolved as an organiztion. |
Actually I have. I've watched them extensively. Since this post is getting long, I'll respond to that in another post later.
| quote: | | What's disturbing is that Obama is so closely tied with them. |
Not with anything that you've demonstrated so far. And any ties he might have had is a fucking drop in the bucket compared to the ties that the GOP and the previous Administration had with groups and subcontractors that builked billions of $ from taxpayers in the current 2 wars.
But of course we hear nothing from your side on that. Just those few millions of $ given to ACORN that was just recently cut off by Congress.
| quote: | | And you supporters of Obama seem to be ok with this, damn the facts and examples that keep coming out. He said on Stephanopolis' morning show today that "I didn't even know ACORN was getting a whole lot of Federal money." BULLSHIT!!!!! There is over $8 BILLION in earmarked money for ACORN in the stimulus bill. |
Fucking demonstrate this now. According to Fack Check and Politifact, the part of the bill under "stabilizing neighborhoods" is an area that ACORN has never applied for and had no intention of applying for:
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/th...bill-and-acorn/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-rebuilding-mo/
And even if they did apply for it, they would have to compete for it with other organizations.
A Limbaugh whore like you telling me to wake up is pretty comical, but also a bit sad.
I fully acknowledge that there are some workers at ACORN that have been at fault. Again, when you have 13,000 canvass workers who are essentially temporary employees, it's ineviteable. But what is it that ACORN does? Again I refer back to the article I gave you that you didn't bother to read from Greenwald when he quoted Anonymous Liberal (www.anonymousliberal.com):
| quote: | Let's take a step back and consider just what ACORN is. It is a non-profit organization whose mission is to empower and improve the lives of poor people. As with many other organizations, ACORN has a number of legally distinct parts, each of which has different sources of funding and engages in different kinds of activities (ACORN's conservative enemies routinely conflate these various parts to imply that ACORN is using federal money for improper political purposes). Since its founding the 70s, ACORN and its employees and volunteers have fought successfully to, among other things, increase minimum wages across the country, increase the quality of public education in poor areas, and protect people from predatory lending practices. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, ACORN helped rebuild thousands of homes and assisted victims in relocating and finding housing outside of New Orleans. The ACORN activity that has drawn the most conservative ire is its voter registration efforts which, consistent with ACORN's mission, are primarily aimed at low-income voters (who tend to vote Democratic). . . .
But even if you take these film-makers at face value and assume the worst, the reality is that ACORN has thousands of employees and the vast majority of them spend their days trying to help poor people through perfectly legal means (and receive very little compensation for doing so). Even before yesterday's Senate vote, the amount of federal money that went to ACORN was very small. This is a relatively insignificant organization in the grand scheme of things, but it's an organization that has unquestionably fought over the years to improve the lives of the less fortunate in this country. |
Going after a group that has used $53 million in taxpayer funding is an easy target for the GOP, much easier than going after the banks or subcontractors in Iraq who've stolen exponentially more than this. But are we to argue that ALL of the $53 million has gone to those EEEVIL items you listed above, or can we safely conclude that much, if not most of the money has gone to useful things for the poor? Can we also easily conclude that even these useful things the GOP and extremists do not want to happen?
Yes, we can:
| quote: | James O’Keefe, one of the two filmmakers, said he went after ACORN because it registers minorities likely to vote against Republicans: "Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization," O’Keefe told The Washington Post. "No one was holding this organization accountable."
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/200...&pagewanted=all |
That is all we need to know about the GOP. That's all we need to know about this crackdown and filmmakers. In their own words - politicians, i.e. DEMOCRATS help get elected by ACORN. And why is that? It's not because of voter fraud - we know this because you and I have argued this. The voter registrations are checked, and is impossible on all levels for Mickey Mouse to come in and vote. It's because this organization goes to the poor who feels Democrats represent their interests better than Republicans, and gets them over to the voting booths.
And that's what the GOP wants to stop. Yet another ploy by the GOP of voter intimidation and voter suppression. Remind me to start a thread on that sometime, one that actually has a little bit of supporting evidence.
I'll talk about the films in more detail later.
___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...
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