quote:

Originally posted by derail I totally see where you're coming from, but don't you think that we who make music should care about the music? Otherwise we become part of the problem, part of the "so much of the stuff in edm is boring crap anyways, what makes a tune stand out is how it's made.." That sentence made it sound like you're saying to the original poster that "it doesn't matter if your song is boring crap, but make sure you make it sound really great so it stands out". I love fresh hooks and beautiful original melodies, so I don't agree with that sentiment.

ah ok, i see what you mean, and i completely agree

as i said i hate that it is that way, i just think it's a truth of the scene (at least to a large extent if not completely)..

I guess it's why i was suggesting starting out learning the basics of production so that you're able to get the quality out there though, in that no label is going to look at your beautiful work even if it is the mona lisa of EDM (as beatflux mentioned) unless it's cleaned up and fits their sound..

not that it's a good thing, but it's kinda just the norm i guess... might as well get ready for the slog of getting the technique down..

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Well i think you should look at both aspects of making Edm music. You have to know the basic's as well as the more technical side of things like Eq, mixing etc.

I would say dabble in all aspects learn about Eq, sound design and arrangement and how to mix properly, also learn how to use reverbs and compressors properly too. Get to know your Daw and any hardware or Vst's you have inside out so you get the best out of them.

My advice would be buy a couple of books on each subject look at tutorials on the net and ask on forums like this one, there is plenty of stuff out there. you just have to search for it.

But remember its supposed to be fun as well. If your getting frustrated stop what your doing, if its making a tune and learn something else like sound design or how to use a compressor properly read up about it or watch a tutorial. Then your always doing something creative.

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quote:

Originally posted by derail Sure, we producers pay close attention to production values. But do you really think the majority of listeners care as much? If a song has a catchy hook/ melody, which they can hum to themselves, which sticks in their head, are they going to care that the reverb has a little too much high end? Not at all.

Phil Spectre in the 1970's had the mantra - production is everything, and I agree.

ABBA'S songs done by others sound shite. Sure the songs are strong, but that's only half the story - it's ptoduction that catches people's attention.

Reading Rick Snomans dance music manual, he lists dozens of minor hits that were turned into monsters by EDM producers - the differnce is ALL PRODUCTION values.

So many aspiring producers can write a nice melody, but honestly, that's failry easy if you practice long enough.

I've noticed people want to dance when they feel,a certain vibe that has little to do with melody - tons of big dance hits have little melody.

Compression is vital to give a track energy, but it needs a lot of care. For example the release tail of the compressor must be set to an exact legnth to ensure the pump is perfectly in time with the track.

If you go on some guitar forums, lots of people are banging out nice melodies, but most will get nowhere, unless they can encapsulate those melodies in the wrapper people want.

In R&B and hip hop, production is 99% of sucess.

AS FOR WHAT TIPS YOU NEED TO MASTER - well there are thousands of em. In a setance you need one vital traite - the ability and motivation to tweak for thousands of hours and dedicate yourself to it - top producers are obessive types.
Thriller took hundreds of man hours to create - for example the single door squeak took 1 whole day to get right - they hired several doors and tried loads of mikes.

This is the take home message for me - you will not make a big sucess nowadays unless you are obsessive about detail - question every sound and then question it again.

Fun eh!

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If it is used subtly it is an intresting affect.
Listen to this track: pst the 1.00 minute mark is clever use of sidechaining:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHA6qjvuoqY

Now songs ala benny benassi circa 2003 that make side chaining so extreme it becomes the main feature of the track should be avoided at all costs: It sounds tired and played out imo
unless... you like corny music

theres plenty of other uses of sidechaining other than the typical kik chained to the rest of the track to make it pump. try sidechaining your snare into the reverb for a pad with heavy compression. so in a breakdown when the snare stops playing the pad opens up with a massive reverb as the compression has stopped....use your imagination!

i think production is more important than melodies in dance... because if your track doesn't sound good on a dancefloor and dont have the energy that good production will give, then people aint gonna dance. which is afterall the point of this stuff! how many tracks out there have had the simplest of melodies and hooks and been so popular?? simplicity is the key. Not that i dont have respect for really complex riff/chord progressions etc, i just wish i could do some of that stuff!

someone made a good point about hiphop productions - the quality level is really high compared to a lot genres, because in essence its simple - vox drums and bass and some simple melodies/stabs. put that in the hands of a great producer and it will sell millions, the wrong hands and it wont get out the studio doors...

**prepares to be slated...

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you can make a pro track without sidechain.
but sidechain is quite simple, so why not learn it?
anyway, first learn to EQ, it's much more important.

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob how many tracks out there have had the simplest of melodies and hooks and been so popular?? simplicity is the key. Not that i dont have respect for really complex riff/chord progressions etc, i just wish i could do some of that stuff!

Yes, simplicity is the key. I much prefer simplicity over complexity.

But ORIGINAL simplicity is where it's at, not generic simplicity. I use the example often, but '9pm (Til I come)' is very basic, very simple, and utterly divine and original.

Same as an album such as Nirvana's 'Nevermind' - utterly simple, and utterly brilliant.

The thing is, it isn't easy to come up with one of these divine simple songs. They sound simple, but it's highly likely most of us won't create a musical statement which compares, even if we're miles ahead in our technical knowledge. '9pm (Til I come)' doesn't have the greatest sounding mix, and Kurt Cobain wasn't the world's greatest guitarist or singer.

I still generally prefer to listen to the examples above than songs which are technically superior. Hooks stick in my head and make me come back for more; technical perfection seems to abound widely, but doesn't impress me - there are so many people able to create amazing sounding trance mixes these days.

It's pretty much the same story with guitarists these days - it seems there are thousands of people who can play at ridiculously fast speeds, but many of them having nothing to say. They spent most of their time working on their playing prowess and very little on working out what they actually want to say - whether their technique actually serves a purpose. And a guitarist who doesn't play as fast, but who has discovered their original voice, can get up and blow these thousands of guys away with some beautiful playing which actually means something.

People who think technical skill is more important than musical content should just stop producing. Right now.

No, I am not kidding. Delete your DAW and all your softsynths, and sell any hardware you have to someone who is a musician, not a hack who thinks "great sound" turns boring melodies and boring rhythms into gold.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles People who think technical skill is more important than musical content should just stop producing. Right now. No, I am not kidding. Delete your DAW and all your softsynths, and sell any hardware you have to someone who is a musician, not a hack who thinks "great sound" turns boring melodies and boring rhythms into gold.

So very true.

I've always said I'd rather listen to a brilliant composition with poor production than a poor composition with brilliant production. Funnily enough majority of EDM seems to fall into the latter category...

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quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery So very true. I've always said I'd rather listen to a brilliant composition with poor production than a poor composition with brilliant production. Funnily enough majority of EDM seems to fall into the latter category...

Yes great chord progressions and melodies can be very satisfying, but the overall waveform that hits my ear is what it's about.

To take a simple track, which I don't love, but is very satisfying to be on the end of - Eric Pryd's 'call on me'. Again not my sort of thing, but I can see why it sold so well.

I've met plenty of musicians that can write good complex melodies but the end result is so boring. They forget the all important production values.

Phil Spectre said in a fairly recent TV documentary that p[roduction was everything, but most musiscians do not understand this.

Take Jean Michelle Jarres brilliant stuff - Oxygene and Equinox. Great melodies yet when many people reproduced these in the 1980's under the 'synth classic tracks' package, those same brilliant tunes were horriC

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its pretty important imo.
atleast if u want to be on the same level of ear-destruction than other releases are today.