It is a painstaking challenge to reach the point of non-duality. Where is the fine line that separates one thing from another? Find that line and you'll see that it never existed.

Shine your light on the dark to reveal the absence of the dark.

quote:

Originally posted by we_R_DNA Reality is the self biased subjective perceptions of the dichotomous deterministic chaos where consciousness meets unconsciousness. I do not know if there really are any facts that we die; after all humans are limited to their senses in dealing with perception of reality. So to say we die is a fact; is perhaps an indoctrination that humanity has taught humans in staying dependent upon their senses. or To Fear physical and biological Death if you will; (religion) Past that sure we physically die based upon other people's perceptual impulses of using their senses to subjectively understand reality, but in reality each one of us does not perceptually conceive or agree upon the same notions of so-called "death." There for death isn't merely a fact at this point since our mind plays a roll in describing what facts are. Past that indoctrination works wonders in controlling the masses in to believing in so-called "Fact that we die." "The truth of the matter is that consciousness poses the most baffling problems in the science of the mind." ~http://consc.net/papers/facing.html~ The beauty of such a matter is that each one of us will find out first hand what happens when the consciousness meets the unconsciousness. Then perhaps we are on the same page; and the fact that we die is merely a notion of reality created by human's using their senses, the very senses that only glimpse at a fraction of the universe. The mind and the ability to obtain the notions of an abstract is far more powerful than relying on only our senses.

HAHA! You're like me. Once you start on this subject it's hard to stop.

This aspect of Eastern thought always reminds me a little of the Lacanian distinction between the symbolic and the real.

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I'm not even sure any of this stuff makes sense.

"The search for Reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings, for it destroys the world in which you live."

Throw out everything you know and see what's left.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I'm not even sure any of this stuff makes sense.

It doesn't. After reading DNA's post above I realized my first impression was correct. It's pointless mental masturbation based on the BS belief that reality is unreal and unknowable because our feeble minds can only perceive it through sense perception and conscious thought. What rubbish.

If we are to take it that reality and the "real" answers lie somewhere outside rational/conscious thought, then the words of the person uttering such a statement must be dismissed outright since they don't know WTF they are talking about anyway. The fact is that existence exists and it can be perceived accurately by the human mind. To believe otherwise you must perceive the entire world as an incomprehensible mess. You must argue that nature is a subjective illusion and that technological progress is a chance accident. The subject is a nonsensical load of BS, and every minute thinking about it is a huge waste of life..though of course if you believe whether you are alive or dead is a subjective matter of opinion open to debate and different biases, I guess this doesn't matter.

Last edited by Capitalizt on Oct-20-2009 at 14:58

Dualism itself has always been a dead end, being resurrected by wishful thinking rather than by anything else.

I personally dislike the mystical underpinnings of nondualism, as there are less religious versions of this continuity hypothesis (such as Peirce's synechism).

quote:

quote: Originally posted by Capitalizt looks like a bunch of pointless mental masturbation to me. Does the "philosophy" have any real world implications or proposals for action? quote: Originally posted by Lomeli Does any "philosophy" have any real world implications or proposals for action?

Why, of course! There's isn't a single field of science (formerly known as natural philosophy, by the way) that isn't permeated by philosophical foundations. Most ideologies, movements, religions -- you name it -- have been influenced by philosophy in a way or another. Let's remind ourselves that you're a capitalist as opposed to what? Someone influenced by Marx? Or by Bakunin, perhaps?

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The idea that science has to have a philosophical foundation before proceeding with its work is rubbish dreamed up by philosophers trying to make themselves look important.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt It doesn't. After reading DNA's post above I realized my first impression was correct. It's pointless mental masturbation based on the BS belief that reality is unreal and unknowable because our feeble minds can only perceive it through sense perception and conscious thought.

Incorrect. Reality is the only thing that holds substance. Reality is all there is.

While I do think that false oppositions and dichotomies are created all too often by people, from what I've read in this thread Nondualism's conclusions don't seem to be able to exist without them. Example:

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 Wait, don't Nondualism and Dualism form a... Dualism?! OMG, mindfuck!

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Why, of course! There's isn't a single field of science (formerly known as natural philosophy, by the way) that isn't permeated by philosophical foundations. Most ideologies, movements, religions -- you name it -- have been influenced by philosophy in a way or another. Let's remind ourselves that you're a capitalist as opposed to what? Someone influenced by Marx? Or by Bakunin, perhaps?

You know, I just live my life. I asked if anyone was interested, and that is all.

No use getting wrapped up in concepts/religions/sciences/philosophies. All it does is feed fuel to the fire, and the fire needs to burn out.

Last edited by Lomeli on Oct-20-2009 at 15:27