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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty question is sill there. why is israel so adamant on triggering a new age of violence (there's talk of iran asking Hezbollah to join the fight and if that happens all hell is about to hit the shitfan)????

I answered this above... Israel's strategy is to create legitimate claims to the lands it desires by establishing a substantial population base within same so that when a 2 state solution is negotiated they have a better negotiating position for those lands. They are willing to live with the violence in exchange for a shot at a more favorable partition when that partition finally happens... this is long term thinking on Israel's part.

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Jewish version of holy war?? mind you, its not about the teritory, its all about religion!!

Suggesting that this is religiously motivated shows a complete lack of understanding for Israeli politics. Of course the Israelis give much lip-service to their religion and tribal heritage; however, they are not motivated by it and very few vote based on religious concerns. This is a territory grab for political/economic reasons; not religious.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard This is a territory grab for political/economic reasons; not religious.

The rest of the world doesn't see it that way it seems.

Either way, who ever controls that area will always have problems.

Even if Israel did go back to their 1948 border. There will still be problems. Most of the arab world doesn't want jewish neighbours.

Both sides are the problem. Also the UN part of this problem. If the UN wants to be sort of helpful it better grow some balls and be more like NATO and less like Switzerland (neutral). Actually the UN is for sure not neutral in this whole Israel conflict, they usually side with the Arab states.

In my honest opinion. This problem will never go away. One side wants something more than the other or one person will give something up but the other will not.

Best thing to do is expel both parties from the region for the next century or so.

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Originally posted by jester The rest of the world doesn't see it that way it seems.

That doesn't make them right though. One need only look to the cedeing of the Gaza settlements as evidence that the motivation is not religious. Gaza is most definately part of the Eretz Israel and considered sacred to Jews; the fact that they gave these settlements up voluntarally speaks volumes about whether or not this is religiously motivated.

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Even if Israel did go back to their 1948 border. There will still be problems. Most of the arab world doesn't want jewish neighbours.

Meh, I wouldn't be so certain that the Arabs cannot co-exist with Jews. Most of the Arabs don't have any particular love for the Palestinians (as illustrated by the fact that none would accept them as refugees in 67). I would suggest that by and large the neighbouring Arab states tend to use Israel as a distraction for their people and create a false conflict as a unifying force. You must keep in mind that most of the Arab regimes are quite oligarcial and repressive of the general populace. The entire Islamist movement was born of frustration with the governments of Arab states and overthrowing them is their real goal. In order to quelle opposition states often try to focus attention on external enemies; Israel is a very good external enemy for the arab regimes to focus on. The reality is that the arab regimes will only be able to hold onto power for another generation or so tops. Once the repressive arab regimes collapse my guess is that you'll find anamosity between Israel and it's neighbours (excluding the Palestinians) will decrease dramatically, as the newly reconstituted states focus on their internal affairs.

Regardless, as long as Israel has the nukes and superior military capability to hold the boarders they are not really worried about their neighbours.

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Actually the UN is for sure not neutral in this whole Israel conflict, they usually side with the Arab states.

Given that the UN is a democratic institution this is to be expected... there are more Arab states and states that benefit from positive relations with Arab states then there are supporters of Israel.

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In my honest opinion. This problem will never go away. One side wants something more than the other or one person will give something up but the other will not. Best thing to do is expel both parties from the region for the next century or so.

Expelling both parties would not help the situation. This will resolve itself in time. At present, Jewish (ethnically, not necessarally religiously) Israeli citizens outnumber Palistinian Israelis (both muslim and christian) by about a million people. The Palistinian Israelis are growing at a slightly faster rate then are the Jewish. Before the century is out the Palistinians will have the numbers, which makes all the difference in a democracy. The ruling class in Israel knows this; subsequently, they know that the staus quo cannot last or else they will lose power. The only viable solution for the survival of the "Jewish state" is to reach a two state solution or to drive all ethnic Palistinians from Israel (which would be unacceptable to the vast majority of Israelis). The two state solution will be achieved in time as it is the only way that both sides can be assured continued existance and autonomy. This understanding is the driver behind Israel's current policies regarding the Palistinians and settlement of the occupied territories... positioning for the eventual negotiations.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by gummybear Nope he won't. I'm surprised and slightly impressed that the US is growing a pair when it comes to Israel..but I don't expect it to last or go anywhere.

I don't think US is annoyed at Israel because Israel is building these homes.

But more like, timing of the announcement during Biden's visit. By making this announcement during Biden's visit, Israel was trying to put a spin on this like US was endorsing the Israel home building.
US felt like it got diplomatically blindsided and is expressing their displeasure according.

And Israel is still laughing, because frankly, US is another dude just to be used for Israel's advantage. I really think Israel thinks there's just them, enemies and neutrals in the world. (remember Canadians being pissed at Mossad using Canadian passports for their spy ops? the Brits are also pissed about this too)

Sure, the Yanks will throw a fit, but in the end, practical reality of situation means it'll be a lot of loud noises right now which will end up amounting to nothing much.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer do you ever not support Israel?

Grossman is a Jewish name no???

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer If shit hits the fan this time more then before at least we know which side started it all and dont have to blame the "palestinian terrosists" for once.

Because if someone pitches a tent on your front lawn, the acceptable response is to drop a bomb on it. Gotcha.

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Originally posted by Spam Because if someone pitches a tent on your front lawn, the acceptable response is to drop a bomb on it. Gotcha.

no, but it is ethnic cleansing by Israel

A 1993 United Nations Commission defined ethnic cleasing more specifically as, "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."

ps: did I just drop a bomb in this thread? lol

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Spam Because if someone pitches a tent on your front lawn, the acceptable response is to drop a bomb on it. Gotcha.

and then you have Israel's response which is to demolish the whole Neighbourhood and turn it into ground zero and kill as many people as they can just to kill that one "terrorist. It is a neverending god damn cycle there.

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^^^

Just to touch on that point, I was watching a great Ross Kemp documentary the other week about the conflict in the area, and he threw out some crazy statistics that really made me question Israels use of military tactics in terms of dealing with 'terrorists'....

it was something like...

...in the last 10 years, Palestinian suicide bombers have been directly responsible for 50 something deaths inside Israel, and in retaliation, surface-to-surface rocket attacks by Israel on 'suspected militant locations' inside Palestine has resulted in over 2300 civilian deaths....

50 to 2300...that's a pretty disgusting ratio...

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Originally posted by LightsOut ^^^ Just to touch on that point, I was watching a great Ross Kemp documentary the other week about the conflict in the area, and he threw out some crazy statistics that really made me question Israels use of military tactics in terms of dealing with 'terrorists'.... it was something like... ...in the last 10 years, Palestinian suicide bombers have been directly responsible for 50 something deaths inside Israel, and in retaliation, surface-to-surface rocket attacks by Israel on 'suspected militant locations' inside Palestine has resulted in over 2300 civilian deaths.... 50 to 2300...that's a pretty disgusting ratio...

Exactly my point and yet the U.S continues to give millions worth of military equipment to Israel every year to kill civillians.
Israel does not follow any international laws and never gets punished for it's crimes against humanity. Last time I chekced you get punished for committing genocide but I guess Israel is special and they get to walk away.

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nah. you gotta wait until about couple hundred thousand before you reach genocide level

people who use words like genocide... usually overdramatic

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded