quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Just so you don't try it - Mininova point in case. The largest site for TV torrents closed it's doors to pirated material 1 month after the pirate bay guys got charged (as they didn't want to take the risk) and no website has taken it's place. Analysis on torrent shares went down by 30% overnight for TV material in USA and have not recovered. No site has taken mininova's place so action by governments on individual sites does work, even if it is by way killing a monkey to scare to chickens.

Actually, this went to court here in Holland as Mininova is a Dutch company . They removed the illegal content to evade being fined (tons of cash) by court.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Diginut, my message was how it was because the concept of stopping piracy is in itself incoherent. You are trying to control data in a dimension where the very principle of its existance is the inability to control anything. You can't even stop real objects from being stolen, and you want to try and stop people from stealing intangible strings of 1's and 0's?

If you think the destruction of mininova was the end or even a thorn in the side of movie piracy, you are misinformed..

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quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Theoretical conjecture with straw-man and false analogy.

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I think you'll find the reason that no one has replaced mininova is that most people seem to be using surf the channel now or whatever.

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quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir ...you want to try and stop people from stealing intangible strings of 1's and 0's?

You need to read: What Colour are your bits?

Your fallacy here is in thinking that the labels and distributors and lawyers care about the actual "strings of 1s and 0s." These do have intangible properties, like almost everything else in the world. My car is just a car and it's the same car whether I bought it, leased it, stole it or built it myself, but which one of those is actually true matters a lot to my banker and lawyer and the police.

I watch these pitiful attempts at cross-career communication every day in the software industry. Some fool always comes along asking how he can better lock down his application to prevent copying or obfuscate a .NET application so people can't pop it into Reflector and view all the source code. And I have to explain that (a) it's impossible, (b) if it were possible then it could still be reverse-engineered, (c) nobody even wants to copy his garbage, and (d) it's been conclusively proven that this reduces market penetration by pissing off paying customers and preventing brand loyalty that's useful, even amongst those who "steal" it. And of course the conversation usually ends up with him saying "well don't blame me, my manager/client insisted on it" and me saying "well then you need to beat him with a cluebat, otherwise you're on your own."

This copy-protection theatre isn't directly the fault of lawyers, or engineers. It's the fault of lawyers who persistently believe in a technical solution and engineers who are too afraid of losing their jobs to explain why there can't be one. And it's further exacerbated by armchair critics such as yourself pointing to these half-assed technical solutions as proof that the legal and moral issues are moot, when in reality the lawyers really don't give a damn about the exact sequence of 1s and 0s.

The concept of stopping piracy is not incoherent or hard to understand at all. It only becomes incoherent when you recast the issue as being about "stopping this series of bits from being transmitted", when the actual issue is "stopping the person who has the bits from sending copies to other people." The former really does make no sense, because the bits are just information. The latter, at least theoretically, makes perfect sense because it refers to a specific and easily-identifiable human behaviour.

You don't need to lecture me about the futility of trying to prevent illegal copying. I live and breathe this stupidity every day and know more about it than you ever will. What you need to understand is that you're not using the same definitions as the lawyers and politicians, which is the only reason they don't make sense to you. To them it makes perfect sense, and rightly so; they don't care about the information, just the behaviour.

It's unfortunate these people, in their frustration at the lack of a technical solution, are willing to accept these clumsy workarounds and are unable to predict the unintended consequences, but unless a real solution is found then this nonsense will probably carry on for many, many years.

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Well, I said what I did not out of ignorance of the behaviour, but looking at them both the behaviour is harder to stop than the actual data. As diverse as people are, and as willing to download something at what many believe, no loss to anyone. It will be real hard to convince people to stop this behaviour. After all, that Children's Fund dude is still on tv, so even poor dying starving children can't seem to motivate people into or out of an act.


Basically my assumption is that the behaviour is unstoppable, and that goes without saying, so all we can do is look at the data itself. But I agree with what you have said.

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i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist