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Originally posted by TranceCluber reading the crowd and programming is there even when your a big superstar dj u have to be able to do that

On the Top Jocks not needing to read the crowd – I didn’t exactly say that. I said: “reading the crowd part only essentially applies to the lower rank DJ’s.” I didn’t say it was totally un-involved. The major concern of the top jocks as you yourself said earlier is creating a flow or vibe, not reading the crowd. For instance if someone went to go and see...lets say Danny Rampling. If they go, 90%-99% of the people there are going to know what to expect in terms of the clubs music policy (i.e. Danny Rampling isn’t going to be playing at Gatecrasher) and the style of the DJ in question, which will be in and around the clubs music policy otherwise they wouldn’t be there. So Rampling playing at Babooshka isn’t going to have to go to the lowest common denominator to get the crowd dancing – they are there with an informed choice, besides the warm-up DJ’s have already done the hard work of getting everyone on the dance floor moving. Johnny 2 Decks the fresh faced bedroom DJ playing at the local Bar Club won’t be able to drop the music he wants to play. In order to get anyone to dance he’s going to have to play lowest common denominator music – the cheese. How’s he going to know what cheese to play? By reading the crowd. Reading the crowd is working out which tunes are acceptable to make people dance and which are not.

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Originally posted by TranceCluber i rather not even get booked by clubs like that and have mayb one booking that digs the stuff i play and lets me program a set right for a crowd ..... and thats exactly what u should do if your not a big super star dj ... certain clubs u can play what is in your heart because you know the people are into it

I don’t know how things work in Germany but what you’ve said holds no argumentative ground in the UK. I wouldn’t mind playing at Bugged Out or BXR, but it ain’t going to happen if I start playing techno in the clubs I’m DJ’ing at the moment. And BXR and Bugged Out are NOT going to book me to play if I haven’t DJ’ed anywhere. In order to be able to get to the top ranked levels of super star DJ in this country these days your going to have to cut your teeth at one of the cheesy ritzy. Someone just doesn’t waltz along and say “ohh, I like you style come and play at our super club!” when your not playing out ANYWHERE. The decent clubs that will let you be more musically experimental and play your style won’t be available to the breaking through bedroom DJ who’s got no experience! The only way they’ll let you play there is if you’ve had live hours behind the decks. The only places where you can get live hours behind the decks that accept fledgling bedroom DJ (and get paid) are the Cheesy Ritzys. And if you want to see for your self come down to the English town of Aylesbury – spin some techno or tech hard house/trance (the music I want to play) and not the cheesy stuff and see the reaction. Not good. Also, If you want these entry level clubs to give you any form of reference to help you climb the club ladder you going to have to make sure you do your job and get the clients dancing – the way to do that? Reading the Crowd & Cheesy Chart Pap.

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Originally posted by TranceCluber just another typical cheezy club salsa dj who plays tracks that people know

A good 80% of DJ's are not the DJ Tiesto’s, Sasha’s, PVD’s, Dave Clarke’s, Lisa Lashe’s, Judge Jules’ Pete Tong's of this world: They are DJ’s who are trying to get to the level where they can play what they want like the DJ's who I mentioned. Go up to one of those "typical cheezy club salsa dj's" and talk to them about what there playing - if you do I will almost gaurentee that a good 70-80% of them would play diferent styles of music given the chance - they just don't have that chance and are putting in the hours and effort to try and get ther.

Without meaning to be rude: I think your complacent attitude will not do you many favours in your DJ’ing career.

Last edited by Spin Doctor on Jul-23-2002 at 03:50

well i dont live in germany at the moment i been living in Las Vegas USA for about 8 years now.... i been playing straight progressive house and got gigs and people know me as for playing such music and not other styles....if i do want to make my name have any type of creditablity i cant mix my genres as if a promoter had a control of me and said play this and this..... i dont know england but here i would have to agree u can get many many gigs by playing alot of styles but youll never have a style that people will know ur name is associated with...there are many other areas of getting play time....parties,raves,internet radio,etc....and there is always a fan base of what you play ....not everyone only digs cheezy glitz.... but for me if i had to go to a club and spin and i had to spin something i usually dont spin the few people who did come for me would be highly dissapointed .... i spoken to many djs they say dont take ever gig ..play your heart and play what you know best cuz thats what u can spin and program the best ...djing isnt a overnight successful career its something it takes time and patients ..thats why im no rush to get gigs in clubs that doesnt usually play my type of stuff..... i played a few clubs here in town and everyone digged my style and i made it clear what i spin ...i had more people dancing then the cheeze trance dj before me ...you just have a different opinion and i just htink u have to stick to your music and perfect it and grow on it.....many big djs did it that way and got up there cuz there name stood for a certain style or vibe they produced and being inconsistant really wouldnt do nothing for there name ... 1000s of djs do what you say and it doesnt bring them nothing mayb that one club residency for a year but how can u spin somehting the best u can if the music isnt really your style...and djs dont go anywhere with it ....its not about being a superstar dj ..cuz superstar djs arnt like celebrities they are more like u and me ... many big djs still have to go and get gigs them selfs they arnt getting them handed to them either ...a few of them might cuz of there more commerical know about ...but im not trying to be known by every person in the world ...i rather be appreciated just by the folks who do enjoy the music i spin and the style i spin thats what im going for .... or make new fans of what i spin ....but im sorry i will never change my style just cuz i would get more gigs at clubs that wouldnt really do anything for your name anyway



by the way ...if you were a metal band would u play in a country music venue??? i dont think so ...same goes about djing ...its all about sticking to your guns

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Originally posted by TranceCluber ...if you were a metal band would u play in a country music venue??? i dont think so ...same goes about djing ...its all about sticking to your guns

If you were in a music band full stop – would you try and get as many gigs anywhere or aim straight for Wembley or say The Royal Albert Hall? (In case you unfamiliar with them they are top venues here in the UK where loads of high level performers have played.) The first gig your most likely to have is in a dodgy pub’s back room.

Anyway, lets agree to disagree on this one. I don’t think either of us will budge. At the end of the day were both in it because we enjoy the music. I personally think this difference of opinion stems from the fact that you’re living in a country where dance/electronica music isn’t really that big – don’t get me wrong I know it’s growing and isn’t exactly non-existent. Here in the UK dance music is much more mainstream. I honestly wish it wasn’t, in which case I’d agree 100% about what you said about keeping you style and sticking to your guns. IMHO it’s the commercialisation of the dance music in the UK which is ruining it. I’m sure most, if not all my fellow UKTA’s will agree with me on that one.

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if you were a metal band would u play in a country music venue???

LOL.. My first guitar teacher was a heavy metal guitarist that played in a country band. How's that for irony?

Seriously, though, I can see both sides of the argument. There are a lot of DJ's that are stuck playing cheese because they are trying to make a name for themselves. And there are a lot of DJ's that are fortunate enough to start out playing what they want in their own style. It seems to be a style vs. geographic issue: does your location support your style?

Spin Doctor,
Sorry to hear about the commercialism of dance music in the UK. It's like being in a cover band, you're stuck playing what people want to hear. As soon as you play something that YOU enjoy, the people get turned off. Having been in a band, I know that feeling all too well.

Fortunately, here in the US dance music is still somewhat underground. Although I can see a change for the worse just over the horizon. Then the movement will eventually eat iteslf and another underground style of music will emerge to take it's place.

The problem starts when money becomes more important than the music... but who can to stop that? I mean, we aren't going to just stop buying dance vinyls (or CD's) now are we?

"Do what you have to do, what you have to do..." (Max Graham - Tell You)

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Originally posted by Ugg Spin Doctor, Sorry to hear about the commercialism of dance music in the UK. It's like being in a cover band, you're stuck playing what people want to hear. As soon as you play something that YOU enjoy, the people get turned off. Having been in a band, I know that feeling all too well.

Thanks Ugg, with that comment you stated what I was trying to get across better than I was managing.

I have to say in all honesty, in a way, I’m actually jealous of you guys in the US. Everything in dance music must seem so exciting and new. Most people don’t realise how commercially driven dance music is over here. For instance the Cream / Gatecrasher Mix CD’s get regularly advertised on mainstream TV. Go into any music shop and there are racks and racks of cheesy vinyl. The closest place where I can go to a decent record shop is possibly Oxford but in the main stay London! So I by most of my tunes online (Thanks www.juno.co.uk - I don’t think I’d survive without you!)

I just want to say that personally I will do whatever it takes to get to where I want to be. If that means I have to play country at a local saloon, so be it. I landed a gig at a club here that plays mostly house and hip hop. I will gladly play there because, even though I don't really like hiphop or house(or all the ghetto people that will be there), it's still a slot, and there is a lot of house out there, I will just need to find the tranciest house I can find.

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I just want to say that personally I will do whatever it takes to get to where I want to be. If that means I have to play country at a local saloon, so be it. I landed a gig at a club here that plays mostly house and hip hop. I will gladly play there because, even though I don't really like hiphop or house(or all the ghetto people that will be there), it's still a slot, and there is a lot of house out there, I will just need to find the tranciest house I can find.

i think most people are becomming a dj for the wrong reasons..... do you guys want to be a big super star dj and htat what drives you to be a dj???? or do you want to grow and become a better dj???...for me i dont care if im gonna be popular as PVD,Oakenfold,tiesto,etc... thats not why i dj ..... I dj souly on my love for this music and if i had to play another style just to get playtime that would just make it not worth my time to waste ..it wouldnt be fun for me... weather i get gigs or not ....Djing isnt really a career u cant live by just by djing many djs have second jobs......remember all the big djs now didnt become djs for the fact they would become a superstar dj ..most big djs when they started the dj role was just the dude in the background getting the people dancing and making the party more fun.... so non of them thought that there love of the music and there hobby would lead them to such fame ...they just did it cuz it was fun to them... and i think there too many djs now who become djs to try to get that status and forgetting about the main part of being a dj which is the love for the music and doing it souly for the music and not for fame. I think sometimes doing that will get u further then being like everyone else who is just wanted to be a super star dj ........just my opinion

I won’t lie; I do want to get to the top of the pile. However, the reason is I want to share the music that means so much with to me with as many others as I can. I want that total musical freedom where people are coming to see me play because they like my style that only really the top jocks command. Incidentally, the reason I firstly became a DJ was just to give a justification to my alarmingly large music collection. I would gladly DJ anywhere for free if it meant I had the musical freedom I mentioned. The only problem is that unfortunately it just doesn’t work like that. You’ve got to put in the hours doing the donkey work before anyone trusts you enough to take a step up the ladder. The higher and higher up the ladder you get the more and more freedom you’ll have.

We haven’t really touched on what I’m about to say next throughout this thread but what I will say is this; If you having trouble getting DJ slots anywhere, start promoting your own nights/parties. Here’s an outlet where you can be true to your own style and still get experience behind the decks. Only problem is, to do this you need some money behind you to start off with.

I'm not really interested in becoming the next PVD, Tiesto, or Oakenfold. But I am interested in getting my music played in front of people and eventually becoming the best Trance(or electronic) producer from the US. If that means I need to pay my dues getting experience DJ'ing something besides trance, then that's what I need to do. I think that reading a crowd is something that requires lots of experience and time, and that is essential to getting my foot in the door.

Last edited by FuzzyGreen on Jul-24-2002 at 06:02