quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie This really speaks to value of listening to patients and trusting them as the experts of their own lives. To me, this is not so much about biomedicine being wrong, but more about the need for medical professionals to set paternalistic approaches aside. Not only that, but evidence based practice is about multiple ways of knowing - not just empirical data. As most people know, stats change all the time. New research proves old research invalid or obsolete all the time. People know themselves best, and with the availability of information they can do a lot of their own research and decide what might work best in their situation. Anyway, it seems to me his issue is not with science, but with shoddy health care professionals that don't listen to their clients or act on their expressed concerns. So I don't think people should take this and run with it, getting all "HA HA IN YOUR FACE, SCIENCE!!" Cause I really don't think that's the point.

+1

The shitty way in which most doctors treat their patients is one of the main reasons why "alternative" medicine is raking away the amounts of money it's raking in right now.

What drives a scientist or someone who works in an applied science field (like medicine) is wanting to discover something important which makes his/her name well known and respected. What drives a businessman is making the biggest possible amount of money. Sadly, more doctors have stopped thinking like scientists and started to think like businessmen.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno LB: So what’s the biggest cautionary tale from the path you took? ZE: That every single thing about cancer in this country is upside down. In Western medicine, there’s a lot of conflicting information, so in a way, going to a doctor to be treated is rolling the dice -- it all depends on what that doctor read that day. Sadly, that’s reality; so you have to go in a combination of your own instinct, your intelligence, and a little bit of chance because maybe what you’re doing is not going to be the right choice. But at least you're the one rolling the dice. The only hope is that the more natural you go, the less contradiction there is. You cannot outsmart your body. Stop it already. Stop with these grandiose tricks. You just have to go back to natural, natural, natural.

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Why not try the wacky diet but also go ahead and take the chemo? You know, hedge your bets?

But I guess that might not fit with "natural natural natural."

He tried chemo without success.

WOLF + LAMB

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie This really speaks to value of listening to patients and trusting them as the experts of their own lives. To me, this is not so much about biomedicine being wrong, but more about the need for medical professionals to set paternalistic approaches aside. Not only that, but evidence based practice is about multiple ways of knowing - not just empirical data. As most people know, stats change all the time. New research proves old research invalid or obsolete all the time. People know themselves best, and with the availability of information they can do a lot of their own research and decide what might work best in their situation. Anyway, it seems to me his issue is not with science, but with shoddy health care professionals that don't listen to their clients or act on their expressed concerns. So I don't think people should take this and run with it, getting all "HA HA IN YOUR FACE, SCIENCE!!" Cause I really don't think that's the point.

Are you not worried you'll be out of a job if more patients do this?

You'll have no piss ridden bed pans to change, or will you offer a house call service?

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Nothing lasts, nothing lasts, everything is changing into something else. Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong, everything is on track...

You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie New research proves old research invalid or obsolete all the time.

That isn’t reason enough to jump on any crazy BS bandwagon of bollocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie People know themselves best, and with the availability of information they can do a lot of their own research and decide what might work best in their situation.

Yeah, maybe in Opposite Land where people aren’t mentally incompetent.

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie So I don't think people should take this and run with it, getting all "HA HA IN YOUR FACE, SCIENCE!!" Cause I really don't think that's the point.

It’s pivottechno, of course that’s the point.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN That isn’t reason enough to jump on any crazy BS bandwagon of bollocks.

I wasn't suggesting it was, lol. But "experts" need to be critical of not only the evidence they use to back up their practice, but themselves as well - and recognize that no matter how much knowledge they possess, they will never be the expert of another person's life.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, maybe in Opposite Land where people aren’t mentally incompetent.

Well, if a person IS deemed competent, they are entitled to accept or refuse whatever kind of care they want.

Well of course. But there’s a difference between letting patients make dumb decisions and championing the capacity of your average person to make reasonable medical choices in a field they know fuck all about.

So, I see pivottechno’s anecdote and I raise him 275 anecdotes.

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368,379 people killed, 306,096 injured and over $2,815,931,000 in economic damages What's the harm in alternative medicine? Complementary or alternative medicine works outside the evidence-based realm of science. This area includes alt-med stories that don't fit into any of our other categories. Read more about alternative medicine Here are 276 people who were harmed by someone not thinking critically: http://whatstheharm.net/alternativemedicine.html

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Well of course. But there’s a difference between letting patients make dumb decisions and championing the capacity of your average person to make reasonable medical choices in a field they know fuck all about.

As I've already said in other threads, it's not up to health care professionals to decide for another person that their decisions are dumb or not. It's extremely unethical, lol.

edit: Sorry, I misunderstood all of what you said. Either situation is unethical. Coercion of any kind, EVEN of accepted medical approaches (if it's not what the patient wants), is unethical.

Jenny, are you, or you becoming a nurse?

Yes.