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Originally posted by Richard Butler + 'epic' break seems like dog charity advert music

LOL! What is "dog charity advert music?"

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Originally posted by Beatflux I take myself too seriously. :P

Haha, that entry's worth a particular mention.

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Originally posted by G-Con I fail to see what possible use my own personal taste of current dance tracks I enjoy are in this discussion but here's three covering different styles.

I was interested in your definition of what constitues better song writing, as you said >

'A slight dip in production standards is nothing if it means better song-writing!'

I'm always interested in other producers views and thought process' is all, nothing sinister

I suppose the bit in your sentence that really intrigues me is what is mean't be song writing, so I wanted to open up that discussion if any one was interested.

My two penneth is that song writing can be anything you want it to be, meaning it could be exploring nothing more than a kick set against some wind background noise.
I'm currently very interested in a more restricted, dare I say minimal tech type sound, but what a lot of people dont know (and why would they even care about some dick on a forum anyway) is I started out making a load of melodic pop tracks a few years back.

I enjoy classic songwriting and get the whole melodic emmotion ride, but as I say a good song imo can be just a kick and wind noise.

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That kick and wind noise needs to be produced pretty damn near perfectly for it to hold anyone's interest, though, and that's a distinctly different set of skills from the kind of melodic songwriting I think he meant.

By song-writing, I'm purely talking about the creation of the track itself, the melody (if there is one), the arrangement etc.

As opposed to mixing, compressing, applying FX where they used more to enhance the production quality (reverb to help a sound sit better in the mix). Or layering several synths together, this is purely production stuff, the listener has no idea how many synths were used.

In certain circumstances, we can even do things we consider part of the song-writing process but we view it from a technical point.

Example, when I very first started producing, I remember learning about the basics of automation. I was soon automating volumes and filter cutoffs as these sounded the most effective for what I was trying to achieve - a build up for instance. Roll on a couple of years, and for a build up, I'm trying all sorts of clever automation tricks for a build up, with 6 or 7 parameters being automated together plus god knows what else going on. Why am I doing this? Because the track needs it? Or because with more experience I feel that a simple filter opening up just doesn't cut it anymore and is too easy. So instead I spend best part of an hour working on a 10 second build. It sounds impressive, other producers might admire the work and trickery involved. But then I listen to whatever current tunes I enjoy and the builds in those tracks are far simpler, using not much more than filter and volume automation.

And that hour I spent trying to craft a technically impressive build has reduced my inspiration for where to take the track next. Apply this same principle to other areas of the track and a 4 hour session provides little more than a couple of minutes of material, with no real idea or motivation of what to do next.

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

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Originally posted by Kysora That kick and wind noise needs to be produced pretty damn near perfectly for it to hold anyone's interest, though, and that's a distinctly different set of skills from the kind of melodic songwriting I think he meant.

Melody isn't 100% necessary. I could be writing a deep house or a techno tune where no melody exists. But it still needs to take the listener on whatever journey is intended, building anticipation where necessary, releasing energy, going on a trip, instilling a certain mood etc etc.

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

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Originally posted by Richard Butler I say a good song imo can be just a kick and wind noise.

Do it.


Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.Do it.DO IT.DO IT.DO IT.DO IT.DO IT.DO IT.DO IT.DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!

Seriously tho, do it.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by G-Con Melody isn't 100% necessary. I could be writing a deep house or a techno tune where no melody exists. But it still needs to take the listener on whatever journey is intended, building anticipation where necessary, releasing energy, going on a trip, instilling a certain mood etc etc.

Sorry, I understand songwriting is way more than just melodic content, just using that as a distinction between the song and the production that went into it.

I respect whatever floats an artists boat.

What floats my boat is both tight detailed production and a sense of emmotion and journey.

A lot of our most treasured classical works depend very much on the sound, the sonic palette achieved with orchestration, layering of the string section and so on.

I see such classical orchestration and attention to the sonic offering, in much the same way as I see modern technical production.

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https://soundcloud.com/butlerrichard

Richard, you never answered my question. What is "dog charity advert music?"

My take on "dog charity advert music?" is crappy attempts to make you feel emotional (usually with strings and a flute) in order to get you to feel sorry and donate some money.