when you yanks finally get to a single payer system i will be so happy for you....

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2...s-to-obamacare/

you're living in fantasy land man if you believe that article is a harbinger of good news. let's wait until after tax season to see how those numbers are instead of being prematurely excited about anecdotal happenings. I know you want it to work out, but it's not going to. The entire law is unconstitutional now anyway so we gotta see how that plays out with the Supremes.

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Originally posted by The17sss I know you want it to work out,

whereas you want it to fail, right?

The health-care industry incorporates several sectors that are dedicated to providing health care services and products. According to industry and market classifications, such as the Global Industry Classification Standard and the Industry Classification Benchmark, the health-care industry includes health care equipment and services as well as pharmaceuticals, biotechnology and life sciences.

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Coenzyme Q10

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN whereas you want it to fail, right?

well like the majority of our citizens, yes because it's a horribly expensive and massive entitlement that our broke asses can't afford. it took every backroom deal, bribe, and political payoff to get passed. it's a bad bill- i'm not against reform of the health care industry at all. it just needs to be done in a more efficient way, especially one in which federal powers do not become even further overreached than they are now.

what i meant was you'd rather a bill fail in order to "teach those commies a lesson" than for the bill to actually be successful in improving the affordability of healthcare for americans. you want it to fail, not necessarily because you think its a bad bill (though im sure you do) but because you're ideologically obliged to do so.

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Originally posted by The17sss it's a bad bill

all bills are bad, that's democracy. and its arguably worse in political models where so much BS "negotiation" is required to get bills passed. your forefathers envisioned really painful processes for government to go through, and you're reaping the rewards of constantly watered-down, half-arsed legislation. i mean, how many bills have had random abortion amendments tacked onto them? how many revolutions have been prevented by the filibuster? how many earmarks have been added in order to get the right number of votes?

the more democracy you put into the (democratic) political system, the shittier and less efficient it becomes.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what i meant was you'd rather a bill fail in order to "teach those commies a lesson" than for the bill to actually be successful in improving the affordability of healthcare for americans. you want it to fail, not necessarily because you think its a bad bill (though im sure you do) but because you're ideologically obliged to do so. all bills are bad, that's democracy. and its arguably worse in political models where so much BS "negotiation" is required to get bills passed. your forefathers envisioned really painful processes for government to go through, and you're reaping the rewards of constantly watered-down, half-arsed legislation. i mean, how many bills have had random abortion amendments tacked onto them? how many revolutions have been prevented by the filibuster? how many earmarks have been added in order to get the right number of votes? the more democracy you put into the (democratic) political system, the shittier and less efficient it becomes.

If one guy in the Congress doesn't like a bill, he can filibuster it, and prevent a vote on it. I understand the whole "got to prevent tyranny of the majority" but come on!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what i meant was you'd rather a bill fail in order to "teach those commies a lesson" than for the bill to actually be successful in improving the affordability of healthcare for americans. you want it to fail, not necessarily because you think its a bad bill (though im sure you do) but because you're ideologically obliged to do so.

Not at all man. I honestly want this specific bill to fail because it's genuinely a bad bill. If this one actually COULD improve the affordability and quality of healthcare for Americans, I would be all for it. Not to mention, there are ways to do it that don't include propelling the government to be able to force Americans to purchase something for the first time in our history. It's not an ideological thing for me- I'd say the same exact thing if Republicans were trying to do this; forcing people to buy something under the guise of adhering to the commerce clause when they aren't engaged in an actual activity is a naked power grab that begs the larger question of, "What can't they Federal Government force us to buy once this precedent is set?" What if a Republican president said, "All people must purchase a gun and bullets at age 21 to help 'provide for the common defense'"? I'd be against that too. Buying an apple isn't the same thing as "not buying an apple" and if we can't see the difference, our "limited government" no longer has limits and our Constitution is in name only. That is what I'm strongly opposed to.

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all bills are bad, that's democracy. and its arguably worse in political models where so much BS "negotiation" is required to get bills passed. your forefathers envisioned really painful processes for government to go through, and you're reaping the rewards of constantly watered-down, half-arsed legislation.

Yes, our founders envisioned a painful process to have bills come to be laws; but they didn't envision a government with as many far reaching tentacles as the one we have now, able to force their will into every portion of our lives from cradle to grave from a distant central planning location. They believed in the power of the States over the Federal government. And they sure as shit would not approve of elected officials voting against the wishes of the people who got them elected in the first place, like we have happening now.


Some bills are worse than others. Namely, the Obamacare bill. Just the tip of the iceberg- the CBO director testified under oath today that Obamacare (which was sold as a job creator as well) will actually kill an estimated 800,000 jobs... and you can watch Medicare's Chief Actuary under oath destroy the entire premise behind Obamacare's gloriousness in 30 seconds from 2 weeks ago right here (namely, being affordable and the "if you like your plan you can keep your plan" meme):




When are people going to wake the F up about this??

Federal Judge In D.C. Upholds Health Care Reform, Says Some Arguments 'Ignore Reality'

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A federal judge on Tuesday upheld the health care reform law signed last year by President Barack Obama and found that Congress had the clear authority to regulate health insurance under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ore-reality.php

in your face kev!

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