the coffin was closed in 2001. The answer is yes. If you aren't able, it is because you suck. Bottom line. I am in awe that this debate even a decade later still has breath left. If you can't get professional results ITB, it is because you aren't very good. Case closed, moving on ...

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Sorry meriter, my rant wasn't aimed at you - it was aimed at those people who we see constantly insisting that hardware is a waste of money, software is better because it's cheaper/free, easier, etc. Those people have such a limited understanding of the music world that they can't see beyond their own laptop. And, that's fine with me, it's just that it gets so annoying when they insist that their tunnel vision should apply to everybody. They fail to realize that not everybody is interested in easy/free/cheap - the best musicians aren't the guys who are always looking for shortcuts.

I'm a musician and I've played guitar for eight years. I have a fender american deluxe strat and regularly play (and appreciate) a taylor acoustic dreadnaught, I've also played piano and been a vocalist for ages. But I think that digital hardware synths are a complete waste of money, because they will always be superceded, have planned obsolescence, poor workflow, and can be replaced by software.

Also, the EDM workflow generally isn't focussed on using "instruments" so much as tools these days, and the modern hardware synth isn't usually built for live tweaking anyway! If someone wants to buy a 303 clone or doepfer I think thats a great idea because its live and tweakable, but a virus seems like a waste of money to me. It could be (and will be eventually) run on a computer, has a clunky interface, slows your workflow because of routing considerations/TI rubbish bugs, has a limited number of voices and randomly drops them in an unpredictable way... Its just not worth it IMO.

If people want to go and spend their hard earned on things like that, then they seem pretty daft to me, and not really aware of their options. But if it makes them happy then why should I care.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad the coffin was closed in 2001. The answer is yes. If you aren't able, it is because you suck. Bottom line. I am in awe that this debate even a decade later still has breath left. If you can't get professional results ITB, it is because you aren't very good. Case closed, moving on ...

It helps to have a good box, a good sound-card, and at least two hard-drives. You also need good software. It can be done on less, but it shouldn't be.

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I have mixed opinions when reading what you guys post because it was as if some of you still see people using hardware and those using software as different crowds who have nothing in common.

When it comes to those analog recreations, honestly, I can't see any difference between sounds coming from a computer and sounds coming from a dsp-driven motherboard. It's just the use we make of it. Until 2K10, edm musicians used to be non-moving people, being seen as nerds by many including dj's, because they'd spend their whole time at their quad core towers.

This decade will be the one that kills the superstar dj culture and that will see musicians of all kinds get back in control. And for that we need the best weapons. Those that control things well (hardware, whether its full of touch things such as the iPad) and those that sync with the music making process (software).

The sound quality of some (inexpensive after all) software instruments is simply outstanding and surpasses everything I have heard from hardware, including the latest Korg unit because of the amount of samples and their length of course. But I like the Kronos interface from what I've seen.

It's down to manufacturers to get this straight. It's not about making the perfect all-in-one solution anymore unless it's very cheap, it's about making a characterful, almost human instrument that serves a specific cause.

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So true, for me it's really like if i can do it ITB I would like to do it that way, no use going OTB just for the sake of it, or to hold on to legacy.

so the way it works for me (some with outboard experience might recognize is)

What works well ITB: (for me)
- sequencing
- sampling
- FX (like delay, verbs, filtering, channel EQs)
- Digital synths & VA synths
- percussion (most replacing outboard samplers / romplers)
- channel compression
- Limiting
- mixing (rather a bunch of converter feeding into DAW than working with an external mixer)

What does not work so well ITB
- analog sounds (listen to MOOG, DSI, Vintage ROLAND, it just sounds different, crosstalk / mud.
- analoque compression and EQ on the masterbuss, get the density back into low/mids. ITB those area's always sound, hollow, they measure the same, same EQ settings, same compression settings, call me anal, but There is no plug that does what a pair of distressors does on drums, the API Collection is still far away from a 2500 + 5500 combo. I hear it, you'll hear it.

So for me OTB is not about doing what can be ITB, but about ammending where you make significant gains.
You're right saying one can make quality productions fully ITB (i mean one can make quality productions with REASON) the thing is that when you bounce these reason tracks and mix them with a good chain they sound just so much better. So i guess it depends on what your after. Will the avg ASOT /TATW podcast listeners notice? probably not, is that relevant as a purchase decission? probalby not. It's about fulfilment en potential. Will you hear a totally different vibe as in a well mastered project Ohhhhh YES! Will you hear a totally different vibe when people listen on a quality hifi set at home? yes for sure. Again not a matter of "better" or "worse" just a different vibe that you can't get without a decent chain. If you want/need it is up to u.

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Wasn't BT's 2003 album 'Emotional Technology' produced entirely with soft synths?

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I don't know why these threads keep popping up, but Maor Levi used a bunch of free plugins to make great tunes later played by everyone, at 16, with FL studio.

eric prydz have been doing it for years.

nevur mind what I put in here before, I was just being an ass...

now...

I'd say there is no reason to work OTB. ITB is the shit because:
- It's cheaper
- Takes less space
- Just about anything in software is of equal quality or better
- More efficient (easier to automate, undo etc).

Unless you're looking for something very very specific (hands on control) that isn't available for your pc there is really no reason to go OTB. Or just for the sake of wanting to go OTB of course.

I've had some OTB gear and ended up selling most of it thus far. I've still got some stuff but don't really do much with it. My Virus C is more so used as a plain (but good) midi-keyboard.

I'm still debating getting a big ass touchscreen. Would be a nice gimmick to move all the faders on-screen without a hassle.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Jan-31-2011 at 11:02

It's all about looking for specifics, they are there, it's just the question of how bad you want "that" sound. and if your willing to seperate with money for it.

Again 70% of the tracks on ASOT / TATW are probably done 100% ITB, even "mastered" by the "label" or artist themselves.

It all sound the same like a Nexus/Sylenth demo. Yes your arps can be different, ofcourse you will find some new patches and fx, but it all has that same harsch / hollow ITB grain over it.

Some people just don't like that flavour. others just don't know better, ignorance is bliss for them. And that's not a problem, if you can't hear the difference in density between a patch on a Virus and a best effort mimic on a VSTi's then just don't bother.

it's like holding a balloon with air and one with water
the one filled with air, looks the same, same volume but just lacks the weight. It's a different vibe, different flavour.

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quote:

Originally posted by Raphie ASOT / TATW ... it all has that same harsch / hollow ITB grain over it.

you cant seriously think this is reference for how software can sound right? its the producers and the genre man, not the gear. if youre producing trance today you have already lost (well in most case, theres still some talents out there).