because of the speed of the triplets and the quarter note pulse, would still call it 4/4

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quote:

Originally posted by ken_lee thanks!! so what im actually meaning is 12/8 then on that "The Dark Side" track. please confirm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjOu...feature=related

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about with my first post. There are 4 beats per measure (just like in common 4/4 time), but it has a triplet feel. If you listen to the part at 0:45, you'll hear the 12/8 time perfectly.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad because of the speed of the triplets and the quarter note pulse, would still call it 4/4

True, you could do it either way - 4/4 time with triplets on everything, or 12/8 time.

edit: actually, in hindsight, I sorta disagree. From a lister's perspective, yes, you can get the same result using either time signature. But, from a performer's or composer's/sequencer's perspective, I think 12/8 makes more sense because the entire track has a triplet feel, so I think it makes more sense to present it (or sequence it) without triplet bars on virtually everything. From a performer's perspective, if a song maintains a triplet feel throughout, I find it much cleaner to read a 12/8 chart, regardless of the tempo, compared to 4/4 with triplet bars everywhere. Occasional triplet bars are fine when the song is primarily broken down into even-notes (e.g., 8th, 16th, 32nd), but a distraction when the entire track is broken out into triplets. Just my opinion. YMMV.

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Last edited by cryophonik on Feb-07-2011 at 20:14

Dubstep and DnB use different structures over the 4/4, you can find 6/8 percussions for example

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik True, you could do it either way - 4/4 time with triplets on everything, or 12/8 time. edit: actually, in hindsight, I sorta disagree. From a lister's perspective, yes, you can get the same result using either time signature. But, from a performer's or composer's/sequencer's perspective, I think 12/8 makes more sense because the entire track has a triplet feel, so I think it makes more sense to present it (or sequence it) without triplet bars on virtually everything. From a performer's perspective, if a song maintains a triplet feel throughout, I find it much cleaner to read a 12/8 chart, regardless of the tempo, compared to 4/4 with triplet bars everywhere. Occasional triplet bars are fine when the song is primarily broken down into even-notes (e.g., 8th, 16th, 32nd), but a distraction when the entire track is broken out into triplets. Just my opinion. YMMV.

You don't have to notate every triplet if they repeat so technically it is simpler to read the 4/4 and at that speed you aren't counting the subdivision so it will also reflect how you are reading it.

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Pretty much all popular music, including "underground" music like EDM, is done in 4/4. The human sub-conciousness is trained to expect music in patterns of four. Four beats per bar, four bars per transition.

BT made a really cool track that transitions from one time signature to another. Dynamic Symmetry on This Binary Universe. It made for an awesome effect and it really throws off the listener. BUT, being thrown off when you're in a club is not something that normally works well. But I'm sure it can be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7JiCZvJh5Q I believe it goes from 3/3 to 4/4 at 8:36. Really awesome. But keep in mind that this entire album is more art than music (IMO).

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quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad You don't have to notate every triplet if they repeat so technically it is simpler to read the 4/4 and at that speed you aren't counting the subdivision so it will also reflect how you are reading it.

Yeah, that's a good point. In hindsight, compositions like "Moonlight Sonata" were written in 4/4 and, just looking at a few examples of sheet music for it on the web, it looks like many/most of them don't use any triplet bars at all. Regardless, it's mostly just an academic issue, but my tiny brain has an easier time adapting 12/8, etc. to triplet patterns compared to 4/4.

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just convention really. THere is no logical reason for alot of the rules but it is something you do because performers expect it. For example, Jazz, you would notate the rhythms as straight 8ths and the performer would swing them making the notation easier to write and read. You would only see a triplet if the stab or melody was on the 2nd triplet.

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quote:

Originally posted by alanzo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7JiCZvJh5Q I believe it goes from 3/3 to 4/4 at 8:36.

No it doesn't. It just doubles in time or tempo, depending on your POV. 3/3 time doesn't really exist in practice - 3 3rd-notes? Maybe M4B can enlighten us, but I sure as hell have never seen it.

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quote:

Originally posted by alanzo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7JiCZvJh5Q I believe it goes from 3/3 to 4/4 at 8:36. Really awesome. But keep in mind that this entire album is more art than music (IMO).

both sections have a 4 note pulse, in jazz, it is just called cut time and it is just twice as fast. 3/3 is not a time signature.

As far as popular music being in 4/4 i would say in the last 50 years yes but 3/4 was probably just as popular before that. And small metric deviations like adding a beat here or taking one there is rather common in pop up to maybe 2000 when that shit rnb started popping up.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Feb-08-2011 at 00:50

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad both sections have a 4 note pulse, in jazz, it is just called cut time and it is just twice as fast. 3/3 is not a time signature.

I was never much of a performer and I obviously only work in 4/4.

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