I use traktor and ive hooked an oxygen 8 (1st gen i think) where i control some loop stuff, 2x4 eqs, some fx parameters and x-fader. suck's i cant use the cue channel without doing some serious sorcery, so the tracks dont always go real well together, when I dont know them well enough, but it's all in good fun. sometimes i remember to hit record, but often i don't.

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Originally posted by kitphillips Warping is quicker than beatmatching

false.

if you are playing on cdjs you can easily have the tracks beatmatched as soon as you cue. No warping requied.

i use serato, but pretty much only because i can play records and digital files together making music shopping much cheaper.

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Originally posted by kitphillips Just completely incorrect. Warping is quicker than beatmatching is once you're used to both, and once its done you've done it forever. I can basically warp on the fly while I'm playing live easily.

Sorry, let me reword...

I personally find it inappropriate for how I like to work - I don't want to have to warp on the fly, primarily because I refuse to use a mouse in a DJ booth (and as far as I'm aware there isn't a way to warp without the mouse? - correct me if I'm wrong).

I agree warping most computer-made tracks is pretty quick, it takes me about 20 seconds before I'm happy enough to hit play... admittedly I'm not as practised as a regular Ableton user. But with a CDJ I can beatmatch accurately enough to throw the track in and then ride the pitch in 5 seconds if I really need to, I'm never going to be that quick warping in Ableton!

A track ripped from vinyl or one which speeds up/slows down can take a few minutes to get right, which is far too long... unfortunately you don't always know which ones will be quick until you've already loaded it in and started warping!

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Stu Cox |

I can warp a track up in 5 seconds in a similar way in ableton... But you do need the mouse without a doubt. I can do the same with a track ripped from vinyl usually too, unless its a really bad rip. In that case you need a warp marker every 8-16 bars, but thats not hard to do at all.

Its just practise, and its not at all harder in ableton than on a CDJ, but you need to be prepared to use a mouse in the booth, and you need to be prepared to practice.

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Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay false. if you are playing on cdjs you can easily have the tracks beatmatched as soon as you cue. No warping requied. i use serato, but pretty much only because i can play records and digital files together making music shopping much cheaper.

I've used both and its exactly the same process. Its just that in ableton you're using a mouse and have visual aids to assist you. You can't beatmatch a track as soon as you cue it on a CDJ because you need to check that the BPMs are the same by playing through a few bars.

Also another advantage of ableton is that you can change the pitch independantly of the timing, and change the timing far more than you can on a CDJ. 10 BPM warping changes are common for me in my sets, vinyl only goes up to 8% each way. That means that you can mix perfectly in key throughout a whole set, get more interesting modulations going on, and generally have more control.

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So if I warped a record in live, I can then alter it's bpm in future?

How well does it handle bpm changes, also what is the cheapest live that is worth having?

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You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

Of course Seems like an obvious question a bit really doesn't it?

The best way to think of warping is as a tempo map which defines for live where the tempo changes are within a track. Live auto detects that itself, but usually gets it wrong, so it needs you to give it the timing structure of the track. Once you've done that, you're in complete control of the pitch and timing and the track will sync to the master tempo.

You need to remember that any timing changes within the original track will be lost, and you'll have to implement them yourself live by changing the master tempo.

The tolerance is quite good. For most tracks, the limits are +/-2 semitones and +/- 15-20 BPM. I've done bigger changes than that, but I try to keep it at 10 BPM or less in terms of tempo changes. That's still more than you get of vinyl generally and it sounds perfectly fine.

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Sweet.

Nice Info.

I have used live before, and I found time stretching pretty simple, but how easy is it when you don't have a snare or solid kick transient to work with? What about with live tracks with variations in tempo slightly does that fuck the mapping up?

Edit I must mention it was a demo version and I learned time stretching bit from an Airbase (I think) tutorial in about 10 minutes. Anything past that though I don't know.

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Nothing lasts, nothing lasts, everything is changing into something else. Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong, everything is on track...

You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

You pretty much have 3 solid choices that are club standards.

1.- Serato ScratchLIVE: #1 DJ software in the US, and most clubs already have it installed. Easy to switch from 1 DJ to another. Very nice library management.

2.- Traktor: Top DJ software in the EDM world. NOT all clubs have it installed. Cheaper than Serato. Very customizable, a lot of package options, 4 decks, 16 sample banks, and the list goes on and on.

3.- Ableton LIVE: IMO, this one is more suited for live shows, rather than spontaneous DJ sets. It's also not as fun as it would be doing real mixing with two decks. I tried mixing with it, and it bored me. It's amazing for studio work, but it's just not my cup of tea for live mixing. A big downside to using Live, is that you would pretty much have to bring your own rig to every gig, whereas with Serato or Traktor, chances are the clubs one or the other installed.

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Thats definately not the case in Australia, and I think you'd need to bring your own laptop anyway, so whats the big deal? Over here standard setup is 2 CDJ 1000s and a DJM 800 or Allen and Heath xone. So if you're using a lappy, you're bringing your own setup anyway.

So what are you not bringing if you have Serato?? You get to leave your soundcard at home because the mixer is compatible? Not really a big deal IMO.

Also, ableton is as interesting as you make it, if you pre-warp all your tracks, then yeah, you might not have a lot to do. If you play three tracks at a time, EQ and layer well and warp your tracks on the fly, you'll have plenty to do.

The best thing about ableton is that it leaves the live option open for later exploration. If you go for traktor or Serato, you've closed that door completely.

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Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Sweet. Nice Info. I have used live before, and I found time stretching pretty simple, but how easy is it when you don't have a snare or solid kick transient to work with? What about with live tracks with variations in tempo slightly does that fuck the mapping up? Edit I must mention it was a demo version and I learned time stretching bit from an Airbase (I think) tutorial in about 10 minutes. Anything past that though I don't know.

No percussion means you have a problem, but its rare in EDM. If it happens, then you can make a rough approximation and it'll usually be OK. You can easily warp using hihats as a reference though, so its not all that bad. Generally, if there's no percs then it doesn't matter how off your beatmatching is, because no one will have a point of reference anyway.

If the timing is off because its a vinyl rip or live track, it means you need to set a lot of warp markers to tell ableton the tempo is changing constantly. Its the same as if you were beatmatching, you need to keep touching the side of the platter to account for the timing being off. Ableton is better at this than CDJs because with CDJs its harder to account for this sort of thing. With ableton, you can lock the tempo's perfectly.

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Originally posted by DjWoody most clubs already have it installed.

I'm still a little bit amazed every time you say that. I'm still yet to see one single club in the UK with any form of laptop-based DJ kit installed as standard, except CDJ2000s if they even count.

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Stu Cox |

lol That's why I said here in the US or at least LA/Southern California, Serato is everywhere. I haven't had to use my Serato box at a club for about two years or so. As a matter of fact, I have 3 gigs here this week, and they all have the Rane TTM57 already installed. And one of the gigs is at a small dive bar! That mixer is very popular. So far, I've only seen one club with Traktor installed and that was Avalon this past NYE. I showed up with my Serato box just in case, and bam! Traktor was already set.

At my residency, we have the TTM 57 set as the house mixer, along with two CDJ's. However, we also have a DJM800, DJM3000, Serato SL1 Box, Traktor Scratch Pro with Audio8, and 2 Technics 1200's in our storage. If it wasn't for me, we would've never had any of that. We would still be relying on DJ's bringing in their own stuff.

CDJ's & Pioneer mixers are my favorite choice as well, and they are everywhere too, just like the 1200's are. But the OP, was asking about software, not about decks.

Oh, and I've also seen VDJ quite a bit too. Actually, that's very popular with wedding DJ's. hahaha

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I have VDJ with a NUMARK DMC-2 and Mackie d.4 Pro, works fine, but indeed drive-inn work

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