bpm counters are not good, they should only be used as a last resort when you are so frustruated that you can't match a beat, and even at that point u realy shouldn't use it.. my friend's djm600 has the bpm counter and he has become really accustomed to using it to the point where he relies on it now (he used to be a really good beatmatcher before the bpm counter came into play) so now when he uses any other mixer w/ no bpm counter, he sucks.. it will ruin your skills if u become reliant upon it.. so my advice, don't use it.. keeping the beats in sync is all a matter of practice and good listening, if u have the records beatmatched as best you think you can, and one starts to get outta sync, just adjust it (drag ur finger on the bumps on the side of the platter to slow it down, or I speed it up by twisting the little silver tab that goes through the hole in the vinyl or i just move the vinyl itself by pushing it along on the label so i don't get finger prints in the grooves), only time i really touch the grooves is when im cueing, anyhow, if u don't practice listening and use the bpm counter, u'll freak out when u don't have a bpm counter.

Besides, your ears are actually hugely more accurate than a BPM counter. Most show the BPM to the nearest beat (Many that show decimals aren't actually that accurate - they're just bluffing), so your two records could be up to a whole BPM out, even though the readout is the same. A DJ's ears (though maybe not the crowds) can tell fairly easily if the beats are about 10ms out, so you'll constantly be having to babysit the record if you use the BPM counter. If you want to do a long mix for say, 2 minutes, and only touch the record once or twice, then the only way is to use your ears.

the new numark TTX's have BPM counters on a nifty little display, I wonder how accurate they are proll on the same level as most mixer BPM units *shrug*

You can train your ear to listen for soon-to-be off beats. I memorize the sound of the matched beat and listen to see if the next beat produces the same sound. If it’s off, I can hear it and make my adjustments. I suggest using only pitch adjustment because it’s the most accurate and precise of all the methods. A person can hypothetically touch the platter too hard and distort the track. Since it’s a major pitch control adjustment, the change is inaudible. I only touch the platter or record to make major adjustments, typically used in conjunction with pure pitch adjustment.

Are there any good articles or tips on how to match bpm fast? I like to improve the speed of my bpm.

I think that BPM counters aren't such a bad thing as people make them out to be. Of course you have to be able to beat match without the BPM to be a decent/good dj. I use the counter to adjust the BPM to APPROXIMATELY the same BPM and then fine tune it using my ear. I can save about 30seconds or more sometimes using the BPM and fine tuning vs. not using the BPM at all. It isn't a skillz contest, it's not a spin-off, when I spin I spin for me and the crowd and they don't care if I use a BPM or not. When I have that extra 30-60 seconds, I use that time for other effects like teasers (which you need to have the tracks beatmatched for) etc. It shouldn't matter what aides you use to get you to the final product if you know how to use those aides accurately and don't need to depend on them to help you mix.

^^^ Dj Flesch, I agree with you in that whatever floats your boat, is what you should be doing.

I just want to say that if you keep practicing beatmatching by just using your ears, you *will* eventually get to the point where you won't want to use anything else because you won't need to! On average I can get two tracks beatmatched to a 1/4 of a bpm within 5-10 seconds *at most*, and after that I leave it going for a phrase or two to make sure it's perfectly beatmatched. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, you can always make little adjustments as you bring in your cued track. Now if I was to use a bpm counter on the other hand, it would slow me down considerably. Another thing: the counter on my mixer is very shaky, for example it will be registering "130" then all of a sudden jump to "150" for no reason! Then go back down to "125" or something. I don't like it at all. But maybe the counter on my mixer is extra shitty. Anyway back to the point.

Another thing that really affects the speed of your beatmatching is your monitor set-up. If you can't hear both channels clearly then it will obviously take more time to beatmatch.

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mikefasssy I agree, it is way more fun to use your ears, but you can't beatmatch as accurately with them. Thats like saying that humans can think faster than computers. (not saying that bpm counters are the best) just saying that with the technology we have, someone could make a program/mixer that automatically aligns tracks etc to the billionth degree of accurracy. But that defeat the purpose, so I'll shutup now.

I respect your opinion because it makes sense on the surface - yes, computers are more accurate than humans in timing issues, etc.

But as far as beatmatching is concerned, this is inaccurate because there is no hardware (or software for that matter) that can beatmatch as accurate as a human can. The algorithm can never be 100% perfect in determining where the "beat" actually is - it's always a little off for some reason (which I've found to be true from experience).

So right now computers are fairly useless for beatmatching. But eventually they probably will be able to do it just as good as humans. I must say, though, that Traktor (mixing software for PC) has a fairly accurate bpm counter. But it still isn't perfect, and I would never trust something like that when I could do it better instead.

Haha -- just imagine buying a piece of software in the future -

"TIESTO PC v 1.0" - "HAVE A MAGIKAL TIME IN THE COMFORT OF YOUR OWN HOME AS TIESTO PC MIXES A KILLER SET FOR YOU IN REALTIME! NO NEED TO GO SEE HIM LIVE! VARIOUS 'DJ' SETTINGS AVAILABLE - SIMPLE TRANSITIONS, MINOR TRICKS, OR SCRATCHMASTER SUPREME!"

Last edited by Alccode on Aug-20-2002 at 00:02

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Originally posted by UltimaGT the new numark TTX's have BPM counters on a nifty little display, I wonder how accurate they are proll on the same level as most mixer BPM units *shrug*

boy, those either show you the bpm of the track OR the pitch range it is set to. it's an option. that does NOT SUCK AT ALL, since there is a screen on the deck, why not add a BPM counter? besides it's a VERY expensive piece of machinery.what's the point of it being expensive if it don't have ALL extras?. and you're an IDIOT if you think it sucks cause of the bpm counter. personally i'm in love with those decks, and i think they KICK ASS, no matter if the bpm counter is available. if you're smart enough you won't use it. if you're not, you'll rely on it. Numark though does not care if they sell products to idiots or to smart people... got it???

oh, and that's NO nifty little display... it's the most cool looking display if you ask me. what did you expect? a 15" monitor to tell you the pitch range?

i know, counters suck... but no mixer or deck, sucks cause of the counter... it's a piece of machinery, not a counter it's self...
you may judge the counter it's self, but not the mixer, deck from the counter..
did ANYONE ever judge a CD deck from the bpm counter? many many cd decks have bpm counters on them...

___________________
Allways keep your friends close, and your enemies closer

I used to have the same problem...I couldn't keep beats together for over 16 beats...So I started doing a set everyday...and over time I just got better...Right now I'm @ 128 beats...but I'm not as consistant as I wanna be...Don't move the pitch really fast. Only nudge it along...

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Originally posted by Alccode But as far as beatmatching is concerned, this is inaccurate because there is no hardware (or software for that matter) that can beatmatch as accurate as a human can. The algorithm can never be 100% perfect in determining where the "beat" actually is - it's always a little off for some reason (which I've found to be true from experience). So right now computers are fairly useless for beatmatching. But eventually they probably will be able to do it just as good as humans. I must say, though, that Traktor (mixing software for PC) has a fairly accurate bpm counter. But it still isn't perfect, and I would never trust something like that when I could do it better instead.

They do make good hardware that beatmatches. Pioneer CMJ-3000 dual cd decks can automix and there are several others too. They may not be able to beatmatch quite as perfectly as a human, yet, but unless you have headphones on and are listening for it, then you won't notice. Also, I'm sure that they have high-end programs for recording studios that will perfectly beatmatch tracks etc.