quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Nope. Does anybody ever ask you to post in any thread you moron? Whether he's on the list or not he's still an incredibly popular trance act, so trying to pump up his poll numbers like it's going to send some kind of message and promote the "anti-DJ poll super totally underground trance movement" is pretty silly. I don't understand what "movement" is trying to get started here. People are going to love how he plays regardless of whether he's in the DJ Mag poll or not, as evidenced by how he remains very popular despite not commanding a high post on the poll. He's trying to gain votes on the poll to spread some message that the poll should be obsolete and that the kind of music he plays should become more popular, which I just don't see that little stunt accomplishing at all. Besides, the kinds of people whose attention it would draw are probably the same types of people who destroy the "scene" he works so hard to uphold. I like his music, and his sets are always great, but this whole "scene" activism thing seems a little "look at me"ish.

I'm no activist and don't appreciate being called names when you don't know me and the passion I believe in.

You see, I grew up with a scene that supported talented unknown DJ's, this scene was plentiful of specialist clubs for them to all play on a weekly basis. I have that very scene to be thankful too that launched mine and many others careers.
In todays World this infrastructure is not in place and this is something I want to help create for all the talented up and coming DJ's out there, maybe you should read the blog before speaking out.

I have nothing against DJ Magazine, I have often contributed for them as a journalist. They do a sterling job of supporting the scene.

I suppose I'm frustrated and want to fast track away to refuel the specialist club scene that I was lucky enough to grow up in and be apart off. This is my goal in life, and I wont leave it until I help contribute.

You already have contributed, though. Things like your podcast bring attention to many up-and-comers in the scene that you're clearly fighting so hard to uphold. Your J00F editions nights do the same thing. I just don't think the whole getting yourself on the djmag poll just to bring awareness thing is necessary. I don't think anybody doubts the contributions you've made to dance music over the past decades, and continue to make today, but it just seems kind of hypocritical that you would use an institution that you've been so critical of just to further your own agenda (regardless of how noble or reasonable that agenda is). In short, I think the contributions that you're trying to make to dance music are things that you have already done or are already doing.

I agree that it is a shame that today's dance music scene has been largely dominated by a self-perpetuating popularity contest that is the djmag polls, but I think there could be better avenues of trying to get around that than using the polls to raise awareness of your own cause. Like I said, the J00F nights you put on are a huge hit in Toronto especially, and it's things like that which further your cause more than anything else. It's not so much "hey look I can get on the dj poll even though I don't play the same music as these other guys" it's about actually exposing that music to more people. Perhaps try to play your music in larger, more well known clubs (even if they normally play the kind of music you don't like) to expose what you bring to the table to more people.

Your goal will only be accomplished by exposing more people to your type of music, not by showing that you can place high on the dj mag poll. I apologize for the name calling, but this does kind of come off more as a publicity stunt than anything else. You placing higher in the voting doesn't bring more attention to the scene that you want to promote, it brings more attention to you. I think it's definitely commendable what you're trying to do, but I feel like you're not realizing the full scope of what you're already doing for the scene, and what you've done for it your whole career.

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quote:

Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

I'm confused as to exactly what you want to create. Your own "Bedrock" night? Isn't that what your J00F nights are, already? Or what do you mean by a "specialist club."

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Quarantine Classics Brunello di Montalcino (In Transit) Edition [Progressive Classics] (August 2020)
Quarantine Classics - Puligny-Montrachet Edition [Progressive Classics] (April 2020)
What Is Progressive Anyways? [Progressive House Classics] (November 2019)

I think that it's refreshing to see someone who is taking the time to reply...

Pretty much there are a lot of people out there who are talking about some of these points, not that the music itself isn't perpetually changing, rather that it's the general public itself which has devolved, as expectations have gone increasingly shallow, and that in the rush to capitalize on their stable of talent, management and DJ agencies may have arguably completely destroyed a certain homegrown scene with a definite flavor and faithful supporters (a community) in favor of the quick flash-in-the-pan globalized approach.

Just look at how many DJs hold weekly residencies today.... real ones, not "I'm there once in a while".

Same as with Wall Street and how it made certain people very rich, it may take years to realize that this slash-and-burn policy doesn't leave much of an ecosystem to grow more onto as they clearly had no desire whatsoever to reinvest back into the community that made them who they were in the first place.

But all of this is very heady and controversial, and to some extent thirty pages of posts isn't going to change a damn thing about it. All of the social networking, constant connectivity and other factors have altered that landscape forever, and I am not sure what anyone can do about it, really.

On this sort of topic I'd say it's about those who care to actually make the sacrifice to grow a local community should just go about doing it, the satisfaction being that they've made friends and an extended musical family rather than just made their agent and some club promoters rich.

Because when all is said and done, this sort of contribution could arguably be looked at as having gone beyond the music itself. Very few can claim that mantle. Mainly because none were aspiring to do this sort of stuff anyway. For reference, read up on quotes from Mancuso interviews. (the man who started it all)

...what becomes a legend most?

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My goal is to be one with the music. I just dedicate my whole life to this art.

DJ FAG is so annoying, for me it doesn't mean anything...

...but i understand that for DJs is quite a big deal to be in there.

If J00F wants my support, ok, count on me, i love his sets and podcast.



By the way, be prepared guys, DJ FAG spam fest will start.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceraverla I loved his tune JAWA. With that said, J00F needs to lighten up a bit. Negativity doesn't have a place in this highly competitive scene. I advise choosing positive vibes and a bright outlook. If J00F really doesn't like the DJ Mag poll he should just not talk about it at all. He's giving it credit by blasting its name out there and coming off as a very jealous DJ. Not good when you want to attract more fans. That's my two cents.

My thoughts exactly.

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Originally posted by John 00 Fleming I'm no activist and don't appreciate being called names when you don't know me and the passion I believe in. You see, I grew up with a scene that supported talented unknown DJ's, this scene was plentiful of specialist clubs for them to all play on a weekly basis. I have that very scene to be thankful too that launched mine and many others careers. In todays World this infrastructure is not in place and this is something I want to help create for all the talented up and coming DJ's out there, maybe you should read the blog before speaking out. I have nothing against DJ Magazine, I have often contributed for them as a journalist. They do a sterling job of supporting the scene. I suppose I'm frustrated and want to fast track away to refuel the specialist club scene that I was lucky enough to grow up in and be apart off. This is my goal in life, and I wont leave it until I help contribute.

The days of the "specialist" club scene that you keep referring to may be over for good John. The world is much more global than it was 10 years ago. Back in the day, when people went clubbing they relied on the DJ to search for, and pick and choose tracks to introduce them to new music. EDM was never really pushed through commercial channels, so DJs were still the source of fresh dance music. And this process of music discovery allowed DJs to develop their unique sounds and styles. This in turn, led to the specialist club scene that you refer to.

IMO DJs are no longer uniquely in such a position of influence. The internet has improved access to music for everyone. The audience is "more educated" and already walks in to a club with an expectation of what tracks they'd like to hear, because they already heard it on Youtube, or on one of the numerous popular radioshows or podcasts.

And this is happening on a global basis - so even clubbers in Hong Kong would know what tracks are making waves, say for instance, in London, and expect their local DJ to play them. If the DJ wants to make a living, he's forced to cater to the crowd's whims.

You already know this, so I'm not telling you anything new here. I admire your dedication towards the scene, but I don't think its possible to bring back those days of specialist club scenes.

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quote:

Originally posted by projectd The days of the "specialist" club scene that you keep referring to may be over for good John. The world is much more global than it was 10 years ago. Back in the day, when people went clubbing they relied on the DJ to search for, and pick and choose tracks to introduce them to new music. EDM was never really pushed through commercial channels, so DJs were still the source of fresh dance music. And this process of music discovery allowed DJs to develop their unique sounds and styles. This in turn, led to the specialist club scene that you refer to. IMO DJs are no longer uniquely in such a position of influence. The internet has improved access to music for everyone. The audience is "more educated" and already walks in to a club with an expectation of what tracks they'd like to hear, because they already heard it on Youtube, or on one of the numerous popular radioshows or podcasts. And this is happening on a global basis - so even clubbers in Hong Kong would know what tracks are making waves, say for instance, in London, and expect their local DJ to play them. If the DJ wants to make a living, he's forced to cater to the crowd's whims. You already know this, so I'm not telling you anything new here. I admire your dedication towards the scene, but I don't think its possible to bring back those days of specialist club scenes.

While I completely agree with what you are saying in the sense that it's so undeniably obvious to anyone who has traveled a bit, I would say that there may well be ways for those who intend on doing so to develop, nurture and maintain a scene outside the reach of Resident Advisor, DJ Mag polls and other global opinion-making sites if this is what motivates them.

I would probably happen to think that part of this globalized vibe may be good for the short term, but also potentially having some long-term pitfalls few people have the time or the inclination to worry about. Technology is great, yet time and time again it appears that creativity with more limited means often times leads to more sincere art that might arguably have more of a long-lasting impact.. (this clearly being for another topic)

The only hitch is that this could only be possible on a very small scale at first, and mostly in a private membership-only fashion. So "if you're not a member, you cannot come in" type of event. (LOL wishful thinking) This of course severely limits the scope of whatever develops when measured against the short-term timeline expectations that everyone has for musical trends (the equivalent of quarterly stockholder dividends ruling the way certain public traded companies operate rather than them having any vision and investing into long-term R&D) but it is far from impossible.

It's clearly a matter of personal choice if someone wants to stay in the circuit of playing for thousands of people at huge events across the globe every weekend, or rather want to go back to something more intimate and personal on their home front. The problem is obviously there are a lot of intermediaries and facilitators in this picture who would stand to lose a valuable income stream if someone of that sort of stature decides to go back to their underground roots and modestly grow whatever it is that they do into something unique and very special over a long period of incubation. The tradeoff is having to sacrifice one's living standards and return to the same sort of material conditions they were probably living in at the time, without the limos, business class flights, assistants and all the rest...?

But in my opinion there is a correlation between all of those things, and nothing is impossible. Far from it actually. People just have to acknowledge what it is they are truly after, and not expect oranges to grow where they planted apple tree seeds....

Tradeoffs and compromises are of course possible as well.

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My goal is to be one with the music. I just dedicate my whole life to this art.

i wish more dj's would speak their mind on the DJ MAG poll like JOOF, he absolutely speaks the truth about the domino effect of the poll and rising festival/club costs.

big ups John.

Actually making a statement: Facebook group saying I don't give a shit about the dj mag poll getting more votes than the dj mag poll gets

Not making a statement: Being a DJ that bags the dj mag poll then asking for people to vote for you

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Hi Guys,

This discussion is very productive and really helps me, hopefully it will continue this way.

Let me clear things up, I'm not looking to build anything to do with JOOF or my JOOF Editions events. These are fine as they are and building naturally due to myself pushing them.
After my initial rant a few years ago (sorry about them btw!) I learned to put put my words into actions, so I created my own events allowing me to play the music I wanted, and it's working perfectly.

I'm looking to help the scene as a whole. Remember I came from a specialist/underground scene that was plentiful. Not only clubs but an infrastructure that supported these producers and DJ's. Journalists would actually venture out into these clubs, hear the DJ's and music, then report back in the form of text in magazines.If they where good, they'd get supported! Todays magazines seem to get force fed what to write by powerful marketing companies paid by rich DJ's.

I know many of you are budding DJ's and producers out there;
When's the last time you have a track reviewed in press?
When's the last time you got some editorial on your DJing skills?
None, is probably the answer for most, and this needs to change as I have seen some outstanding talent while on the road.

I 100% know if I can be involved with building a new infrastructure, it will make heads turn, especially with club owners and promoters, to make them realize there is another way of filling clubs rather than booking headline acts.

Regarding the poll, remember I was in it for many years. I wanted out of the poll because people where booking a 'number' rather than knowing what I was about musically. My gigs where getting worse! Since being out of the poll my gigs are 1000000% better, I'm in the happiest place ever in my career. The one benefit I saw from being in the poll, was corporate companies approaching me for sponsorship. This is my reasoning for maybe giving it a shot again. I can then get sponsorship to start building a community to support the specialist scene, something that doesn't exist out there. Regardless of the poll or not, I'm going to make this happen either way and need help and support, there's a HUGE job ahead.

So please ignore the Poll for me personally. I'm doing this to help rebuild the scene I grew up in because week by week I'm seeing it get smaller and smaller. I'll also benefit as there will be a load more clubs for me to play at too!

So maybe now you know my reasoning, we can discuss here. This will help me.


Thanks for being so kind this time, I'm taking my brave pill coming into the forum