I was talking about the DnB genre. Some of those tracks have virtually no outro. Maybe 3-5 secs instead of the minute you have with regular house tracks.

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If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

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Originally posted by Storyteller I was talking about the DnB genre. Some of those tracks have virtually no outro. Maybe 3-5 secs instead of the minute you have with regular house tracks.

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I may have to try that next time! If you have any examples of this, I'd love to check it out.

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I remember reading a James Holden interview where he said he specifically made tracks with obscure intros/outros because he didn't want shit DJs playing his music.

I'd like to see less conformist outros and intros for sure.

Top chefs are always wanting to push new boundaries and do things differently, so it's slightly claustrophobic that the edm scene seems to generally insist on such conformity.

PS - another big conformist gripe of mine (this could upset some of ya) - the trance ROLLING BASS - fuk, please can someone be a bit more original and ditch those sonic lawnmower rolling bass's.

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I'd send them a 2-step remix with a broken sounding beat in 6.5/3

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Originally posted by meriter I'd send them a 2-step remix with a broken sounding beat in 6.5/3

That's what the original version is.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Cool, thanks for the clarification. I may have to try that next time! If you have any examples of this, I'd love to check it out.

Just check my soundcloud (in sig). The first thing is the DnB mix. It has about 5 transitions where I just pressed play as soon as the other one ended. And I fucked up about an equal amount of mixing moments haha.

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If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

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Originally posted by BshidoHEAT dance music DJs would just have to be creative like our hip hop counter parts.

That used to be true, but not anymore. That's why hip hop DJ's always bought doubles.

But in EDM, back in the early 90's, a lot of techno/rave songs didn't have intros or outros and they were short. Songs where around 3-4 minutes each, 5 at the max. It wasn't until around the mid 90's when they started getting extremely "dj friendly."

Personally, I edit most of my mainstream house tracks. I don't like long intros or filler shit, so I cut them down to the bones. I edit them so they have a 16-32 bar intro/outro, and they get straight to the point.

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Originally posted by Richard Butler PS - another big conformist gripe of mine (this could upset some of ya) - the trance ROLLING BASS - fuk, please can someone be a bit more original and ditch those sonic lawnmower rolling bass's.

eh, come on, there's a lot you can do with a rolling bassline as far as the timbre is concerned. this is like complaining about power chords in rock music. sometimes you just need something that works, and sounds good, there's no need to overthink every element. sometimes the bass isn't the primary focus and having an unusual rhythmic pattern just draws attention away from the main elements of the song.

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Originally posted by Vector A I have made a very illuminating diagram for you to consider:

This made me laugh.

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Originally posted by BshidoHEAT dance music DJs would just have to be creative like our hip hop counter parts.

This really.


Even as a DJ first myself, I'm sickened at how lazy some DJs are. I remember hearing a certain fairly respected house DJ saying "the chances are, if it doesn't have an intro exactly 32 bars long, I won't play it".


Personally I quite like tracks with more creative intros and outros. If nothing else they make much better set starters/enders. But it depends on the genre - things like deep house & prog do work a lot better with long mixes in a set (although not necessarily every mix), which generally need long, building intros & outros, but they don't have to be drums only.

I think certainly with the current state of play there are enough people making DJ-friendly versions of their tracks that if as a producer you don't want to, you don't have to.

I guess my advice would be rather than thinking "ooh I'll give it a really original structure", think about the context in which it's likely to be listened. If it's very much a club track, imagine it being played by a DJ and decide if it would sound too sudden (which can often translate to 'cheesy' in a lot of people's minds) if it came in after just a couple of bars, or even just being dropped straight in.

The intro's your chance to capture the feel of your track without giving too much away and if you make it unique and recognisable you can create a lot of anticipation as it's brought in.

One obvious example (from way back when) is Freefall - Skydive... classic track with a really original and recognisable intro, but still long and easy to mix. The heads recognise it coming in, then have the suspense right up until it drops into the first breakdown.

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