quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've got no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean, but this is not about brinkmanship. I'm not trying to prove I know more people than you or anyone else, but I know enough people, from DJs to label owners to producers to promoters, to know how things work, so it's absolutely irrelevant to me whether you think I'm a "nobody". I know the score, and so if you come out with utter bullshit you cannot bluff me off an argument by dismissing me as a "nobody". And as for me being a DJ, I have never handed out a promo CD, I have never asked for a booking. I have turned down bookings from promoters who post on this forum, because I don't think I'm good enough to play live. I'm not particularly interested in DJing as a career, it's something I do entirely for creative satisfaction. Most of the people I know are through my time as a music journalist, people who have got in touch with me or who I've just met. What I've done as a DJ does not change who and what I know, and when you say something like "Djs don't do it because they have this insecurity and this fucked up sense that they own those tracks" you just sound like a fucking cretin to me. But yeah - the real reason producers aren't making money is because people don't know the names of their tracks because DJs don't code their podcasts in a certain way. It's got nothing to do with rampant online piracy and a hugely inflated market where it's almost impossible to stand out. You've totally got to the bottom of the music industry's problems in this thread. And all these flagship DJs who whore out their own labels and productions on their podcasts are deliberately counter-acting their own marketing by refusing to embed tracklists, entirely because they're all insecure and want to take credit for the music, even if it means losing out on the money they're trying to make. Your argument is so fucking stupid it defies description. That you have the temerity to call people "morons" in the same post is the hilarious icing on top of a particularly idiotic cake.

i never said it was the only reason, I pointed out a very common issue most people have with buying EDM in that they don't know how. As a dj, specifically a dj that is playing music without permission which is probably 99% of djs, it is rather sad that this even happens. A total solution ? Never said anything hinting at that idea. But it is a pretty easy concept to implement that would help everyone

The sentence you have trouble with would make sense considering your little tirade about how you know people. I could play the same game and make you look completely asinine but as I said, that sort of game, if the term confuses you, a game where one tries to out do the other in constant futile competition in that nobody is ever going to show their deal although in hindsight, if the cards where called, it would not quite be anywhere remotely near what one would consider a level playing field.


The above user mentioned he does it, So why doesn't everyone. It isn't hard. And it is something you should do. If you don't, you are a selfish prick that profits from the work of others breaking the law in the process. And i'm sure you talk about how things ruin your scene like the awful music you seem to think i like. Well guess what, what you do, and thousands of others is alot worse.

The point is that people want to buy EDM, They just don't know the names of tunes because djs are not naming them making it accessible. A set list is not going to help unless you have the actual track markings which nobody does, And if you did, might as well imbed the data in the podcast. if the idea of a bunch of djs promoting themselves using material for which they don't have permission without helping the person that isn't suing you and the resulting nonchalance is fucked.

The sad part is that i bring up an issue that needs to be addressed but instead of acknowledging the issue or suggesting better ideas, you seem to focus on your disdain for my online persona. It will help djs, it will help producers. Why people would be so adverse is beyond me.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Jan-12-2012 at 18:04

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney The sentence you have trouble with would make sense considering your little tirade about how you know people.

It would make sense if you had any grasp of grammar or syntax.

quote:

The above user mentioned he does it, So why doesn't everyone. It isn't hard. And it is something you should do. If you don't, you are a selfish prick that profits from the work of others breaking the law in the process. And i'm sure you talk about how things ruin your scene like the awful music you seem to think i like. Well guess what, what you do, and thousands of others is alot worse.

I would disagree for the following reasons:

1. I don't have a podcast.
2. I don't profit from making mixes.
3. I live in the UK where it is legal to use other people's music in non-profit ventures.
4. Whenever anyone asks me "What's that tune playing at time xx.xx?" I always tell them the name of the track. I also provide record label information in my tracklistings.

As for the question "Why doesn't everyone do it?" I would suggest the following:

1. Enhanced podcasts are a relatively new development and are, as yet, non-standardised.
2. A lot of DJs play unreleased exclusive material on podcasts, so when they broadcast there is often, as yet, no way of buying the music at all.
3. The market for full club tracks may actually be smaller than you are suggesting, given you've done zero market research and presented zero facts or statistics. The biggest names making poppy EDM may shift significant units through iTunes, but it remains open for debate how many non-DJs out there would frequently buy 7 minute instrumental club records if only they were one click away.
4. As has been mentioned, DJs are actually a lot more forthcoming with tracklisting information than you stated. Many DJs name the tracks they've just played in voice on their podcasts as well as providing tracklistings.

Lastly, and just to make this as clear as possible to you, I am not denying that it's a helpful feature or that it could make some difference to sales. What I am taking issue with is your rather laughable and childish slurs against DJs and DJing as a whole. Is it at all possible for you to discuss an issue like this without immediately resorting to negative generalisations, insults, shit amateur psychology, and a generally confrontational, aggressive and subsequently hypocritical attitude? "Kinda sad how djs and producers seem to be at odds" you plaintively bleat, whilst simultaneously fostering a constant state of enmity.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

this was never about you. The point is that alot of djs do this. And there needs to be a little more tit for tat among djs and producers.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

mad4brad...you've lost the plot.

as far as i know , this isn't a story so what you are trying to convey isn't working. And i haven't deviated from my initial post. There is an issue in this scene regarding music normal people want to buy and how damn inaccessible it is no thanks to most djs who people listen to to hear the music. It really is simple, it is incontrovertible and it is annoying why people seem to not get why this isn't important. Djs are playing material to the public without consent, they aren't being sued mostly because the labels don't have the time or money and when it boils down to the numbers, djs are poor so there is no point in litigation. So you have a bunch of djs using material without permission promoting themselves. If you think it is as you say " losing the plot" by expressing how absurd this situation is. well you clearly have a skewed sense of what is fair and just. It takes less than 5 minutes. Do you really have no respect for your scene and the producers that make it available for you that you can tell me with a straight face that taking the time to make it possible for people listening to your mix to know what track is playing at what time to much to ask ?

Producers have to dj because nobody is buying their stuff. I wanted to buy their stuff but I couldn't because the podcast used by a dj to promote himself to his end didn't have the common courtesy to at least take the 5 minutes so that your promo is actually a promo. If you don't imbed chapters, well guess how many people are actually going to count the tracks and spend 10 minutes finding out what track it was based on the list you gave. 0. This happens more than you can imagine. It shows you have no respect for the people that make your music. It is ironic because these people are the ones taking your jobs because they have to because they are not selling enough because the only market they reach are djs which is so small it is laughable. This is a win win situation. How you can object to it is completely inexcusable.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Jan-12-2012 at 19:32

What's going on here lads? Seriously... Are both of you alright? Or have you got nothing better to do than write essays to each other trying to explain a point that clearly matters as much as who's got the larger penis between the two of you?

I'm tempted to take looney's first post, then attach the 'how to' on podcasts below the original post and change the title to. 'How to use chapters in podcasts'. And get rid of all the other drama.

you are complaining, not an actual producer. I know enough of them to know that they don't really care as most normal people do not pay for music, and the djs that do aren't listening to the sets of others in order to figure out what they want to play themselves.

your argument is sort of akin to the idiots that claim all vinyl labels are stupid and ruin dance music simply because they don't have the means to have access to the medium. they still make money, they still only release records (sometimes as as unknown artists), yet dance music hasn't imploded.

today's generation has everything handed to them on silver platter enough as it is. this utopia of transparency will never happen because it has never been transparent to begin with...you can even go back to the time when guys would put stickers on top of the original tag so that trainspotters couldn't see what the track names were.

you buy a record with hard earned money, you play it, sometimes for others. you don't owe anything else to the producer. your support was given with your wallet. I always track list everything, but would never be bothered to do this. What happens if I'm playing 3 records at once? throwing acapellas , samples and loops into the mix? how would you link that? playing unreleased material? it isn't as white and black as you think, and honestly you come off as a total noob that has been listening to this kind of music for 2 weeks. as an industry guy you would figure that you would know better...but it is becoming quite obvious that this claim is a load of shite.

you leave a tracklist and label info...if they can't take 5 minutes to sort themselves out with the info given, chances are they didn't like the track that much in the first place. one of the biggest fun factors of dance music has been the thrill of the hunt. technology and accessibility have already ruined a lot about dance music, this is one aspect that I am glad has not been completely ruined yet. things handed to you for nothing are rarely worth it.

nelly don't close this. some discussion is better than none and this section is dead.

quote:

Originally posted by zyklon-jay you are complaining, not an actual producer. I know enough of them to know that they don't really care as most normal people do not pay for music, and the djs that do aren't listening to the sets of others in order to figure out what they want to play themselves.

this

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

quote:

Originally posted by zyklon-jay nelly don't close this. some discussion is better than none and this section is dead.

This. It is kind of an interesting discussion.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney this was never about you. The point is that alot of djs do this. And there needs to be a little more tit for tat among djs and producers.

Almost all name DJs are also producers, and vice versa.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

should we get to the part where some producers don't like this feature because they often sell tracks with uncleared samples and don't want it plastered everywhere, or should we wait a bit longer?