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Originally posted by Raphie Ok, if you're looking for the old TYAS, Simon Patterson & Paul Miller type stuff, the synths need to be more raw, not so sweet and smooth also you miss the hyped reverse sucking clap between every 3 and 4 further i sort of agree with L4C, but to put that into perspective YOU have a distinct sound as well, I would try to capitalize on that, do what gives YOU goosebumps, not focusing to much what's "lacking" compared to what others did before.

I totally agree, I'm just trying to nail a few of the more specific mix techniques that i've yet to master to my own satisfaction. I've really just thrown mixes together for trance stuff in the past so I guess I'm trying to muster a couple of years worth of more technical practise into a couple of weeks

Anyhoo, here's a revised drum and bassline all naked. First half without sub and the second half with a new, simpler and totally cliched offbeat sub bass.




And here's the 'full' mix of the revisions.

I'm much happier with the kick this time, although I still think the hats and percussion in general are missing something.

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If it's just for mastering the sound, you're already way beyond that sound on me. difference i hear is the more VEC type percussion and less smooth synths (so probably filters further open, bit more spiky sound)

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Originally posted by Raphie If it's just for mastering the sound, you're already way beyond that sound on me. difference i hear is the more VEC type percussion and less smooth synths (so probably filters further open, bit more spiky sound)

Yeah I need to add more in the way of aggressive acid distorted loveliness now

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I was experimenting the other night with kick layering and thought, why the hell am I always layering using kicks from drum machines? (synthetic kicks).
Why not use actual real kick drum one shots from actual real drums?
The fact that these samples are recordings of actual air moving gives them a nice unique tone that can work really well. A lot of "metal" type kicks worked really well because they are usually very tight and are compressed and eq'd to cut through a very dense mix of guitars which are mainly mid range. If they can cut through a wall of guitar riffs they should cut through a EDM track.

There is also another trick that I have seen someone do (although I havent heard of anyone doing it with EDM but its interesting). Ive seen a rock mix engineer crank an entire drum mix through his mains monitors and actualy mic up and record the sound coming from the monitors in the room. Apparantlly for huge rock drum sounds, is was very common during tape days to crank the drum mix through a massive PA in a live room and have it really pumping, they would mic it up and record it then blend it in with the original drum tracks.

Im struggling with stereo width and depth too but I have been experimenting with the waves "center" plugin which allows volume control of sides and center of mix. I now realise that even when a stereo source (a stereo reverb for example) is stereo, it still has a fair bit of information in the center which narrows it.
I opened an instance of "center" on the reverb return track and pulled down the center fader and couldnt believe the difference it made to the stereo width perception, especially while the entire song was playing. Definatelly a technique I am going to use in the future.

By the way, I think you're songs sound great, I'd be more than happy with myself if my tracks sounded like that.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...s=#.T03E7fUmySo

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Originally posted by madmuso I was experimenting the other night with kick layering and thought, why the hell am I always layering using kicks from drum machines? (synthetic kicks). Why not use actual real kick drum one shots from actual real drums? The fact that these samples are recordings of actual air moving gives them a nice unique tone that can work really well.

This applies to me so it might not be useful to you, but it's worth mentioning.

1. Contrast. Using chorus properly on a synth will widen it enough, then down the road in your mix, items that are less wide and more center will create a nice contrast. My pads tend to be the widest, and my leads tend to be more centered. Drums of couse are nearly always panned center, with some exceptions. You'll need to draw contrast with wide and center synths, though. Example: Widest = some form of pad, most center = your lower octave bass instruments.

2. Was it harsh before the mastering process? This would imply that mastering solves the issue with multiband, but I assure you it should sound decent before the mastering. I saw a tutorial where these 2 jackasses in a studio were gawking about how much better the track sounded after they mastered it, and at the EQ stage they were saying before the EQ it sounded bad, and after it sounded good, mastering shouldn't be considered a fixer, more like a finalizer.

3. Choosing the right kick, right off the bat. It helps to choose the kick first. Making room for the kick in your mix is probably the biggest step. The duration of the kick is very important. Keep that in check. Don't just rely on side chaining, but that will probably help you make room the most. Busses like perc, synth, bass, etc, can all affect the room the kick has, not just the bass bus. Also, the signal that you use for your side chain, depending on its sonic qualities and its lenghth, will give drastically different results, especially when you consider the different variables involved in setting the compressor to begin with. I always work around the side chain signal itself. Try using a shortened sample of the same kick drum you're using in the track. Subtle nuances will make or break the quality of the mix, and indeed whether or not the kick has quality presence. This, of all things, took me the longest to master.

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Originally posted by Normie http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...s=#.T03E7fUmySo

cool!

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Originally posted by madmuso cool!

I've had it a little while now and can recommend it highly, if for no other reasons than to sample the sounds. It is an awesome vst that might help a lot of people's kick woes, especially if they use the overheads and room mike feature.

And for $30 USD it's a no brainer for paring with 808/909 kicks. The toms are great...it's just excellent overall.
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Give it a shot Tehlord, The demo is free.

Last edited by Normie on Feb-29-2012 at 12:21

I think you need to isolate your bass part better as that version you posted still sounds like 3 layers/ The hihat really is killing your space offering little. I was trying to get you to hear the foundation and make that solid before anything else but you need to really just have the bass and percussion. No synth doublings. IF that is just one synth, then you need to deconstruct that synth and make it so you can hear just the bass line without the top end synths.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney I was trying to get you to hear the foundation and make that solid before anything else but you need to really just have the bass and percussion.

You did, and trust me the previous version was considerably, considerably worse.

Rest of feedback duly noted.

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new version is definitely a step in the right direction and way more relevant to my interdasts. ill have a listen tomorrow on a proper setup and tear it to shreds as best i can >.>

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I'm not ignoring your thread, I just don't feel I can particularly help mate. Could you post up an embedded example track of what your'e aspiring to.

Personally the kick doesn't groove for me, it's not something I can put words to, but for this track I think a different kick would give it a better foundation. It needs to speak to the bass, be in keeping with it.

It's so much a taste call in the end, but I'm imagining something more Tekky and minimal without sounding too small though.

Chooosing the right kik is I think one of the top 3 competencies required in edm and I can say hand on heart I've never yet been satisfied with my own choices. It's litteraly as crucial as cooking a piece of fish to 3 Michelin* perfection. Sorry for the food analogy yet again folks! I actually have this sense that many of us, self included, don't even recognise the subbtleties involved in this. We know whan something sounds right, but not why.

But we like a challenge, so chin up, never give in me lad!

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