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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

Here's all you need to know to start speaking mandarin with confidence:

Tones

Tones can be quite daunting if you don't already speak a tonal language. Still, the concept is quite easy: the way you pronounce a syllable (or a word) changes its meaning. The trick is getting the tones right.

Mandarin is quite simple, in the sense that there are just four possibilities. Mind you, the tones change quite a bit from place to place (the tones in Xian have little in common with the ones in Beijing), and you won't be completely misunderstood if you make a small mistake - as long as you distinguish the four tones properly.

  • Flāt: Just keep your pronunciation steady. Don't fall, don't rise, don't anything. Just keep the damn thing steady. Pretend to be a singer sustaining a note in a Bas-like diva manner if you must, but don't change your pitch.
    Ríse: Let your pitch rise as if you were making a question. Except the "question intonation" is just inside the syllable. Start low, go upwards. That's pretty much it.
    Bŏunce: This is by far the most fun tone in Beijing Mandarin. Start high, get low, and then bounce back up.
    Fàll: Start with a really high pitch and then go down. It's just like saying "Fuck" when you stub your toe, except you can hold the sound a bit longer.


There's actually a fifth possibility, called the "neutral" tone, but you don't need to care about it. Just pay attention to how people make yes-no questions with "ma" and imitate them.

Consonants:

All right, this is the really tricky part. There are many consonants in Mandarin that should be familiar to you - however, some of them should sound really alien as well.

The main distinction between French/English consonants and their Mandarin counterparts is that voicing is important in these European languages, whereas aspiration plays a bigger role in Mandarin. I'm going to call these consonants "blow" and "no". The difference between them is clear: when you say the "blow" consonants with a sheet of paper in front of your mouth, the paper should move; when you say the "no" consonants, they don't. This is what we call aspiration, but I just thought you'd have more fun knowing that Chinese girls like to blow.

Here's the very first difference you need to master: say "pin", "spin" and "bin". The "p" in "pin" is a blow consonant, while the "p" in "spin" isn't. This is the difference between Chinese /p/ and /b/ (I'm using these slashes to represent the different sounds, as opposed to the letters).

Now, since you're learning pinyin, I'm going to sort the difficult consonants between "blow" and "no" and explain how they're to be pronounced (I'm not going to bother you with the consonants you do already know):
BlowNoWhat the hell is going on?
p /pʰ/b /p/pin and spin. Simple as that. You can pronounce "b" as an actual /b/ if you want, they won't even notice.
t /tʰ/d /t>teen and steam. You can say dean for the latter as well. No probs.
k /kʰ/g /k/kin and skin. Say gain if you want to keep the "g" as an actual "g" in your head.
q /tɕʰ/j /tɕ/This is where your headache begins. This sounds a lot like "ch", except it's pronounced a tad bit more forward in the mouth. You can say "ch" for all they care, as long as you remember to make the aspiration with the letter "q". "j" can sound just like the first letter of your name.
ch /ʈʂʰ/zh /ʈʂ/This is a bit trickier. It still sounds like a "ch", except you have to curl up your tongue as if you were trying to pronounce the letter "r" at the same time. You're Canadian though, so it's probably just like saying "church" really really quick
c /tsʰ/z /ts/The "z" sounds like the z in "pizza". The "c" is its aspirated version. Not much of a challenge.
VoicedVoicelessNow let's go to a distinction you're already used to!
r /ʐ/sh /ʂ/Say "z" and "s" with your tongue curled way way on the back of your mouth, as if you're saying "pleasure" and "sure" in a somewhat retarded manner (that's closest you've got in the English language).


I guess that's all you need to build up some more confidence in the language. Try to listen to it as much as you can, and get used to pinyin tables. Try to make small associations ("j" with "Jay", "z" with pizza", and "q" with "chiqachiqa-wow-wow!") to help you master the most bizarre letters/digraphs. You can copy and paste the bits between // on Wikipedia and you should find more examples (although not always in Chinese).

Are the vowels okay? The same vowel can sound very different depending on the context, mind you.


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 18:43  Brazil
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zyklon-jay
The Real Henry Hill



Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Ici William Bumbray du service de police de la communauté urbaine de Montréal Esti.

Thanks Lira. 9000 pubic hair for you.

will report back.

Old Post Jun-14-2012 18:47 
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

De rien


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 18:51  Brazil
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zyklon-jay
The Real Henry Hill



Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Ici William Bumbray du service de police de la communauté urbaine de Montréal Esti.

ironically enough, i believe that last pronunciation is similar to the r rien after the z and the s. At least i think so, and have been doing that.

Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:10 
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by zyklon-jay
ironically enough, i believe that last pronunciation is similar to the r rien after the z and the s. At least i think so, and have been doing that.

There's some dialectal variation. It can sound like an actual Canadian "r", but I was afraid you could stumble upon the more zh'ish sound and wonder what the hell went on.

If it sounds like the French "r" (the one pronounced with your throat), then I'm sure there's definitely something lost in translation


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:15  Brazil
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by Euforix
Lira, I was expecting a longer novel.

I actually wanted to write in more detail, but I had unexpected visitors here in my office and I need to finish a presentation for tomorrow


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:21  Brazil
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Intellekshual
tranceaddict in training



Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Oubliette

Being able to speak the Moroccan dialect, it is surprising what else you can pronounce in pretty much any language. Now if only I can put that "skill" to good use and learn a couple more languages.
I really want to learn Italian, Greek and perhaps Japanese. But I have been concentrating on learning English the past few years that I haven't gotten round to any of those.


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:25  United States
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zyklon-jay
The Real Henry Hill



Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Ici William Bumbray du service de police de la communauté urbaine de Montréal Esti.

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
There's some dialectal variation. It can sound like an actual Canadian "r", but I was afraid you could stumble upon the more zh'ish sound and wonder what the hell went on.

If it sounds like the French "r" (the one pronounced with your throat), then I'm sure there's definitely something lost in translation


tabarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnak

Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:43 
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by Intellekshual
Being able to speak the Moroccan dialect, it is surprising what else you can pronounce in pretty much any language.

Hey, you! Let me borrow your Arabicness you for a brief while: Do you pronounce ع and ح in the same part of your throat? I can (with some effort) pronounce the latter... but apparently I just can't pronounce the former without running out of air and have my life flesh before my eyes as I fall flat on the ground grasping for oxygen

Edit: I wish I could learn some Moroccan, and I know this is a bit of a heresy, but the best course I found teaches the Egyptian variety... and I can barely hear that bloody ع


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:45  Brazil
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netroM
42



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Trondheim




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Old Post Jun-14-2012 19:54  Norway
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Intellekshual
tranceaddict in training



Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Oubliette

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
apparently I just can't pronounce the former without running out of air and have my life flesh before my eyes as I fall flat on the ground grasping for oxygen

LOL that is interesting, because the closest thing it sounds like is if were to try to reduce your air flow by putting pressure on your throat with your hand, or, in essence, choking yourself.
Probably a good exercise to get you familiar with producing the sound, the muscles that produce it, and what they need to do to produce it. Start saying "ah" and gently press your hand on your throat until you begin to hear the bloody ع , and keep practicing until you don't have to "choke" yourself in order to produce it... sounds like a lot of effort, not sure if worth it.

Or try to imitate a sheep or a goat, it essentially sounds like the bleat sound they make.


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 20:07  United States
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by Intellekshual
LOL that is interesting, because the closest thing it sounds like is if were to try to reduce your air flow by putting pressure on your throat with your hand, or, in essence, choking yourself.

A-ha! I knew it was close
quote:
Originally posted by Intellekshual
Probably a good exercise to get you familiar with producing the sound, the muscles that produce it, and what they need to do to produce it. Start saying "ah" and gently press your hand on your throat until you begin to hear the bloody ع , and keep practicing until you don't have to "choke" yourself in order to produce it... sounds like a lot of effort, not sure if worth it.

Well, I've just got started, and I haven't even moved on to the words yet, so there's always the hope I'll nail this distinction down in the near future. Still, I can't quite remember the last time I decided to learn a language, heard the sound, read the description, and still didn't quite know where to begin
quote:
Originally posted by Intellekshual
Or try to imitate a sheep or a goat, it essentially sounds like the bleat sound they make.

Actually, we imitate goats here using either ا or ه


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Old Post Jun-14-2012 20:23  Brazil
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