Cheers for that, it did make a suprising amount of sense, i mean i know i dont understand a lot of it but i get the basics. MY tune did start on D so i gues it was in D phyr;kljnfcak but then i changed it to start at G coz i thought it was actually in the key of G. From this site:
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/
it says this would mean its in
G Melodic Minor (Descending)
is this just G minor or is it something else?
there were two other G minor
G Melodic Minor (Ascending)
and
G Harmonic Minor

which one is the actual minor key???

does that mean the Bflat major and G minor are the same key????

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There are actually all sorts of minor keys, the simplest being the harmonic minor. However, the best is the melodic minor. The ascending/descending thing comes about because classical music theorists felt that a scale sounded better going up in the ascending version and better going down in the ascending one, because the shifted note in the ascending version leads more strongly to the tonic (the tonic is C in C major/minor, D in D major/minor etc). Personally I feel that if you've got a lot of notes coming in rapid succession, as you often do in trance, then it sounds dissonant to switch between the alternative notes, so I usually stick to the ascending version as it has more tension.

Bb major and G minor aren't in the same key because they have different root notes. This makes a difference when it comes to chord progressions, as you tend to lead to the tonic. Tunes written in the two keys actually sound quite different. I think that's the harmonic minor that shares all the notes anyway, so who cares?! Melodic minor! Melodic minor! Bb melodic minor! It's the best!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Russo Now u gotta learn about chords and partwriting and stuff like that... theory is too confusing for me lol, we do some in school but I just don't get the "big picture" about how you apply all the little stuff you learn (like triads, etc.) to the composition of an entire piece. I wouldn't worry about it, you don't need it for trance. If you try some more symphonic stuff, though...

Hehe in my opinion, learning all those theories help producing trance a lot! (btw I'm trying my best to explain all these in eng )
Look carefully into trance (esp melodic trance) structure, you will notice that trance is not as simple as people thought they are just endless loop. Let's first talk about structure of a simple tune. While a few notes go together, they form a bar (eg. "me me me" at the beginning of Jingle Bell). While (usually) 4 bars go together it forms a sentence. Most well-known simple songs consist of 4 sentence. If we give a letter to represent a sentence, then Jingle Bell will be like "ABAB". Let's see the script of the song.
C Major 4/4
| E E E - | E E E - | E G C D | E - - - |
| F F F F | F E E E | E D D E | D - G - |
| E E E - | E E E - | E G C D | E - - - |
| F F F F | F E E E | G G F D | C - - - |
Notice the cadence of every sentence - 1st E (mediant), 2nd D to G (dominant), 3rd E (mediant), the last is C (tonic). A tune goes like this will be a complete tune while notes go together with tension and finish with a perfect cadence which make you feel so fulfilled.
What's the relationship with trance you may ask. Here it is. Look into usual trance structure,
intro - 1st buildup (break) - 1st climax - 2nd buildup (break) - 2nd climax - outro
see any familiar? hehe If we ignore the intro and outro, we have like this 1st buildup - 1st climax - 2nd buildup - 2nd climax. Comparing it with the Jingle bell structure "ABAB", they are the same! And also note that all trance are in 4/4, 4 bass drum in a bar with (usually) melody not at the same position as the bass drum, and at every 4 (or in multiple of 4) bars either some new sound comes in or go out. The difference of them is the time the song last. While a normal short tune maybe last about 20sec - 1 min, a trance last for over 6 min! We may say that a trance tune is actually a magnification of a short melody tune. Okay then we know this but how does it help in our composition of trance?
Here is some of my opinions. Actually trance is a splendid/abstract/exaggerated decoration/enhancement of a short melody. If "the original melody" in your trance is not a nicely composed or even you've never thought of it at the beginning and just placing notes anyhow and everyhow, your tune will sound more like a mess. And also while it is actually a single piece of melody, it is not a good way (or easy) to just alter the key of the tune decidedly. Listen to the trance remix of ayumi's, you'll find that most of them only pick a part of the whole tune to remix (if you've never heard ayumi's original tune, most of her tunes change key at least once up to over 7 times!). And about some of the very nice trance tune (in my opinion) like "dj tiesto remix of kid vicious's re-form", "three drives remix of frank t.r.a.x. vs o.r.g.a.n.'s nebuchan" and "l-vee's tears", they all have a nice melody at its own structure. They know how to put notes/chord together to form a "tension" and progress the song and eventually a perfect cadence at the 2nd climax which make the tune a whole and complete and you feel so fulfilled!
End of all, there are so many posibilities in trance. You might use ambient effects, samples and most important imagination to contruct your own tunes and style. So go ahead and experiment!
Keep on the good jobs producers!

ps. anyone please correct me if you found anything wrong hehe

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omg! this is complex stuff! but very interesting as well! nice thread, that makes my brain go like..aaaw
sorry i cant add some stuff, i dont know abything about chords n keys..

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If you're using FL 3.5x to make trance or any type of music, I do knowe that the piano roll can be setup to make automatic chords for you, based on what your main note is. Check the manual from www.fruityloops.com or PM me if u want to know more of what I'm talking about.

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quote:

Originally posted by Haimoimoi I have taken some college-level music theory, and answering your question is more complex than you might think. There are two major issues you'll deal with: key signatures and scale. We'll start with your scale: D, D# F, G, A A# and C. You're actually in the major key of Bb (at least, in it's simplest form. D Phygian is correct if your 'root' note is D.) The basic scale is Bb (A#), C, D, Eb(D#), F, G, A. Now, the D sounds really good because it is either your root or a third from the root. It is the middle note in a Bb I. major triad. Now a 'C' will dissonant because it is too "close" to the root. The same goes for 'A'. These notes are useful for creating tension in your music, used as a suspension. Ok, to learn chords, you need to start with the basic triad. If you are in a scale (say C for example), you can create a C major chord by playing C, E, and G together. This is the I. (or first) major chord in that key signature. There are three natural major chords in a scale, I, IV, and V. That is in C, the triads that start on C, F, and G. The others, ii, iii, and vi are minor chords. The chord starting on B is a special case called diminished -- it's a minor chord with the 5th being a half step lower. Sorry if that was a little confusing, but it takes years to get everything straight. To give you an idea of what you're up against, here's a chart of natural chord progressions: http://members.aol.com/chordmaps/genmap.htm Ack! If you have any specific questions, I'll be happy to help though!

was that link supposed to make sense??? hehehehe j/k. actually your dicussion did make a lot of sense. i've always been naturally musical, but i can tell that there is still i don't know about this kinda stuff. thanks for the quick summary.