Raphie I respect your approach in trying to make everything from scratch and keeping it less fussed with, nothing wrong with that but I thought it worth mentioning that a lot of producers out there do share this philosophy and again thats fine, BUT then when I hear thier stuff I think to myself, wtf, all that gear, all that philosophy, all that desire to create an individual sound and yet the tracks are sooo unoriginal.

I have in mind Squarepusher - I've heard stuff just like his but from 25 years ago, he and others like him are deluded into thinking they are sonic wizards making something particularly unique, dripping with integrity and orignality, but most of the time it's a great big wet turd of nothingness.

So I find it hard to square thier espoused philisophical puritanical approach with the turd output they manage to make.

That, my friend, is the unfortunate discrepancy between vision, ambition and talent
If i was good, i would have made this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99h4XTDiM5g&sns=em

Unfortunately i'm not that good, but this is way more INTENSE, BEAUTIFUL and PURE than 99% of the Ableton, Camel Audio and Native Instrument content "me too" driven crap posted here.

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Last edited by Raphie on Mar-26-2013 at 18:29

Squarepusher? When has he ever been minimalist or "unfussed-with?"



I guess some of his live instrument stuff went in that direction, but if you're looking for someone who's generally all about lack of effects and editing, he isn't it.

Last edited by Vector A on Mar-26-2013 at 19:15

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Ok, a bit more philosophical then Content CREATION Or content RECYCLING In the "old" days the sound source was the center of the universe and one used tools to shape that sound Nowadays you can record your grandma farting, put her though melodyne or stick her in one of the many "waveshaping" synths, to finish it of to a near unreal dubstep wobble with an EQ like above. Modern producing moved from source to proces. IMHO i don't think this is progress, i think it's over availabillity of content and the urge ITB producahs feel as a need to "differientate" since ITB sounds are all maths, possibilities are unlimited. However that doesn't mean that more processing is better, that doesn't mean that using 8 plugins in a row makes you cutting edge, or high pass a bassline, with linear phase and transpose it with above EQ and call it an ultra cool lead will not be looked upon as pathetic. i guess the waiting is on 1 VST that does it all, Dynamic EQ, compression, sidechaining, phase widening and all the other 23 shitty algo techniques that keep on being repackaged in different GUISs all the time. Put some Afrojack presets in there too while at it and all nu guys will find it "groundbreaking" again. I'm not behind, or ahead, there is no curve, at the end there is just me..... If tomorrow someone would write a VST that could breakup each song into a full DAW project full midi with patches creates automatically for your synth of choice, now THAT would be nice, if they also could extract the vocal as perfect accapella while at it, it would be groundbreaking. Regarding the FLStudio kid with differentiation deficiency: Everybody is phissing in the same pond Same daws, same plugins, same workflow, same samples, same soundsets, same remixpacks, same templates, same youtube tuts, same......... No one needs more Ableton minimal techno, or vengeance / nexus template house. The pond is empty, it has been pissed in, shit in and now it's dried up they found your grandma laying on the bottom too. I hope u understand I don't want to phish there anymore. I also didn't like the pond better before they dumped your granny in there, so no need to desire what has been. Your horizon can be as wide as 360c. Now... Neither is phissing a popularity contest, you do it because you like it. You don't need telling me where to fish... L4C you're not next level, your being caught up in NU land..... Though the vst name implies balance, driven by boredom pirated abuse by that FLkiddie will be it's destiny.......

the only problem is that you still use a sequencer which sort of undermines your entire philosophy. Trust me, i know hundreds of musicians that would laugh at anyone that couldn't play their own parts without a sequencer. You are just as narrow minded but on the other end.

Some would say using a a DI is cheating. You should be micing those synths.

I respect your wanting to do things you enjoy but don't knock what others do when what they do is entirely more interesting than what you do because it has been done.

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old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney the only problem is that you still use a sequencer which sort of undermines your entire philosophy. Trust me, i know hundreds of musicians that would laugh at anyone that couldn't play their own parts without a sequencer. You are just as narrow minded but on the other end. Some would say using a a DI is cheating. You should be micing those synths. I respect your wanting to do things you enjoy but don't knock what others do when what they do is entirely more interesting than what you do because it has been done.

fair point and taken. Never said it was the only direction, or right direction but it was my direction, with a justification of why.

It's more about essence, fewer components in a song, look at the video, the guy had the 2 things i don't have: playing and composing skills, and he delivers, with 1 instrument and a looper, a very strong message. Which is on a totally different level than 99.99% of what we now see as EDM, the EDM has become a candystore of buildingblocks, Which were supposed to be there to speed up workflow, but now have become a pittyful excuse for what people call a track, the only thing cool,about the track being the "groove" or bassline and that's not even theirs

And it's shamlesly accepted as norm, even look at the Push and NI commercials no one cares any more, composing has "evolved" to content selection and mangling
Something i personally struggle with, as it's nothing else then posing with other peoples talent.

I mean, take away all the libraries and see what's left on this forum, a handfull of guys that can actually make tracks, memorable , or at least with identity.

And i think that where the "back into time" discussion comes from as well.
We don't need to go back, but there is a generation who sorts of respects the skills that were required 20 years ago, opossed to what people nowadays call producing.

Wether that's false sentiment, no longer a reality, sticking your head in the sand, doesn't matter you either feel it, or you don't.
Maybe content selection and "library agilitty" (knowing where to get sounds, deduct your vision into them and apply, rather than how to make them) has become the new critical skill, who knows, but don't want to be that guy. I want to be either the guy on the video or content creator, on the creation side of the production curve, not the consuming side. Not even on a professional level, as i will never be a professional musician, engineer yes, musician no. That if if you listen i can say i MADE that, not I SELECTED & ASSEMBLED that.

___________________
Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

Last edited by Raphie on Mar-27-2013 at 06:28

You do mastering which kinda undermines everything you say about taking credit for other peoples creativity.

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quote:

ALFI - BOHICA - DJ MIX (Stream+Dropbox)

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario You do mastering which kinda undermines everything you say about taking credit for other peoples creativity.

Interesting, please elaborate.....

___________________
Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Interesting, please elaborate.....

What's there to elaborate on?
You slap on a couple of compressors, an eq and a limiter and suddenly you're entitled to 8 spots in the metadata. Anyone can master.

___________________
BA-DUM-TSS

quote:

ALFI - BOHICA - DJ MIX (Stream+Dropbox)

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario What's there to elaborate on? You slap on a couple of compressors, an eq and a limiter and suddenly you're entitled to 8 spots in the metadata. Anyone can master.

let's not go there, your initial point was?

___________________
Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie fair point and taken. Never said it was the only direction, or right direction but it was my direction, with a justification of why. It's more about essence, fewer components in a song, look at the video, the guy had the 2 things i don't have: playing and composing skills, and he delivers, with 1 instrument and a looper, a very strong message. Which is on a totally different level than 99.99% of what we now see as EDM, the EDM has become a candystore of buildingblocks, Which were supposed to be there to speed up workflow, but now have become a pittyful excuse for what people call a track, the only thing cool,about the track being the "groove" or bassline and that's not even theirs And it's shamlesly accepted as norm, even look at the Push and NI commercials no one cares any more, composing has "evolved" to content selection and mangling Something i personally struggle with, as it's nothing else then posing with other peoples talent. I mean, take away all the libraries and see what's left on this forum, a handfull of guys that can actually make tracks, memorable , or at least with identity. And i think that where the "back into time" discussion comes from as well. We don't need to go back, but there is a generation who sorts of respects the skills that were required 20 years ago, opossed to what people nowadays call producing. Wether that's false sentiment, no longer a reality, sticking your head in the sand, doesn't matter you either feel it, or you don't. Maybe content selection and "library agilitty" (knowing where to get sounds, deduct your vision into them and apply, rather than how to make them) has become the new critical skill, who knows, but don't want to be that guy. I want to be either the guy on the video or content creator, on the creation side of the production curve, not the consuming side. Not even on a professional level, as i will never be a professional musician, engineer yes, musician no. That if if you listen i can say i MADE that, not I SELECTED & ASSEMBLED that.

still don't see what your philosophy has to do with using only hadware. Using no pre made content is a choice you make hardware or software. Your choices are incredibly limited and exhausted in terms of using things to get new results as far as hardware alone is concerned. In a way, your inspirations are just your preselected libraries now. But you didn't make any of the synths, you didn't design any of the filters and you used a machine to program things you can't perform.

THe only difference is that the result of your fruits will sound old and uninspired.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

The difference being described here is that person A sits down in front of a collection of musical instruments and (within the realms of their ability) creates something entirely from scratch with as little preconceived notion as possible.

Person B scrolls through Beatport to see what's current, then through Beatports sound pack selection, matches the two up and throws a few loops in Live and releases it as a single. If you're really lucky they might click a few notes in the piano roll and call it 'a melody'.

You could pick a million holes in each of these examples, but if you can't see the fundamental difference then you've probably not done both.

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