Imagine there were no American troops in the middle east since the 80s, do you see a happy and prosperous middle east in your mind's eye? happy homosexuals walking in the streets? liberated women fulfilling their dreams at every corner? no violence in Muslim families? no violence between Shias and Sunni?
And what about the clash of civilizations we see in Europe for example?

American soldiers and bombs got nothing to do with all of this, it's all just crazy religions and dumbass dictators.

i say let Putin handle them... lmao

papa putin will make them into real men

quote:

Originally posted by Viber Imagine there were no American troops in the middle east since the 80s, do you see a happy and prosperous middle east in your mind's eye? happy homosexuals walking in the streets? liberated women fulfilling their dreams at every corner? no violence in Muslim families? no violence between Shias and Sunni? And what about the clash of civilizations we see in Europe for example? American soldiers and bombs got nothing to do with all of this, it's all just crazy religions and dumbass dictators.

80s?

I can't time travel. I can look at 2 centuries of western foreign policy and notice how they all get fucked in the end.. And I you list some criteria for a happy society. What about having the largest prison population on the planet. Or incredible disparity between the rich and poor in a country that seems to think they are the cArtong ones. The USA murders more of its own citizens than anyone else. Pretty sure no Muslim country has wiped out several societies numbering in the millions. Pretty sure no Muslim country came close to the slave trade the west were running. They haven't nuked anyone. They haven't started any world wars. Their hands are pretty fucking clean in comparison.

I think you need to just step back and realize things are not that simple and to simplify it like that video just adds fuel to fire.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney 80s? I can't time travel. I can look at 2 centuries of western foreign policy and notice how they all get fucked in the end.. And I you list some criteria for a happy society. What about having the largest prison population on the planet. Or incredible disparity between the rich and poor in a country that seems to think they are the cArtong ones. The USA murders more of its own citizens than anyone else. Pretty sure no Muslim country has wiped out several societies numbering in the millions. Pretty sure no Muslim country came close to the slave trade the west were running. They haven't nuked anyone. They haven't started any world wars. Their hands are pretty fucking clean in comparison. I think you need to just step back and realize things are not that simple and to simplify it like that video just adds fuel to fire.

Middle eastern Muslims are not the only ones who got fvcked throughout history, i'm sorry but that fact cannot be the justification for violent ideologies.

I can't believe how ungrateful some Americans can be, i'd kiss my US citizenship everyday if i were you, everything is cheap and there's an actual dream to chase, there's a reason so many people want to live in America.
Yes, your country has black stains in it's history but these are things of the past, there won't be another Nagasaki and there won't be any more slave boats heading your way anytime soon.

I'm not trying to fuel any fire of hate here, i'm just pointing out that even if you leave their hatred towards the west aside you still get a picture of a dangerous ideology running wild.

But why would you care? you don't have to live in Syria, you don't have to be a gay man or a young woman in a Muslim country.
You respect them so much you think they deserve to live in the 18th century.

While Islam does have a great deal of problems baked into it -namely the way that women are treated- I think you would be hard-pressed to find a belief system that does not have, textually, extremely similar holdings. Tell me strict interpretation of Leviticus would be so much more preferable than observance of the hadith.

The pernicious truth is that many prominent Islamic nations have many decades of being economically coerced or rigged by the west. What we see now is a backlash of radicalism as burgeoning powers in the Islamic world assume a degree of economic clout, though the internal social and economic stratification within each nation cannot be ignored.

There's almost nothing that allows for the ascension of religiosity quite like poverty and the institutional suppression of women's rights, especially when it comes to matters of birth control and family planning, which religion then repurposes to spin its own sustainability. We see this in poor African nations when it comes to Catholicism, we see this in Southeast Asia when it comes to Islam; we even saw this in a crippled Germany, post WWI - people ask themselves all the time: "How could everyone allow the Nazis to take over?" Well they fixed the economy and appealed to the disenfranchised. It's the promise of order. It doesn't make sense to most of us because we'll probably never wonder how to feed our families tomorrow or the next day, but it matters to some people, somewhere, on a level they would literally sell their souls for.

This is not at all to imply that Islamic nations are poor, because they're not- some of them have a fucking lot of money- for their upper classes. But the fastest growing religion is also the youngest, and its appeal in growth is very much seeded in the developing world; it's developing because the west fucking broke it in the first place, and then shrugs when people hate America. Continually destabilizing these nations is a good way to keep Islam savage, and it sure seems sometimes that there definitely exists a vested interest in doing so, though not by anyone in our pay grade.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber Middle eastern Muslims are not the only ones who got fvcked throughout history, i'm sorry but that fact cannot be the justification for violent ideologies. I can't believe how ungrateful some Americans can be, i'd kiss my US citizenship everyday if i were you, everything is cheap and there's an actual dream to chase, there's a reason so many people want to live in America. Yes, your country has black stains in it's history but these are things of the past, there won't be another Nagasaki and there won't be any more slave boats heading your way anytime soon. I'm not trying to fuel any fire of hate here, i'm just pointing out that even if you leave their hatred towards the west aside you still get a picture of a dangerous ideology running wild. But why would you care? you don't have to live in Syria, you don't have to be a gay man or a young woman in a Muslim country. You respect them so much you think they deserve to live in the 18th century.

Lol American dream? To work 50 hours a week a marry a fat girl. The USA is rubbish. USA is not great. They are oh so fucking average in every single way.

Quite right The west has fucked many people. Most of SA was wiped off the planet. They can't really send a delegate to speak about the Aztec plight. Same with Indians.

There is a 1 coo relationship between west intervention and your gonna have a bad time.

I understand their hatred , I don't condone it. I understand what oppression can do and how it tends to express itself within a society unto that society. The point you seem to miss is that USA does everything worse. So using them as your reference point is ridiculous. What they do is more heinous than any other country civilized or sand people.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney 80s? I can't time travel. I can look at 2 centuries of western foreign policy and notice how they all get fucked in the end.. And I you list some criteria for a happy society. What about having the largest prison population on the planet. Or incredible disparity between the rich and poor in a country that seems to think they are the cArtong ones. The USA murders more of its own citizens than anyone else. Pretty sure no Muslim country has wiped out several societies numbering in the millions. Pretty sure no Muslim country came close to the slave trade the west were running. They haven't nuked anyone. They haven't started any world wars. Their hands are pretty fucking clean in comparison. I think you need to just step back and realize things are not that simple and to simplify it like that video just adds fuel to fire.

dude snap out of it...stop living in the past..you're talking about shit that occurred during the times when none of us were alive... it's time to evolve as human beings and until someone stops the brainwashing, it will not get any better..

Iraq war was pretty fucking recent. More civilians killed than any act of terror by the terrorists. More black people in prison that were ever slaves. You just chose to restrict your idea of bad to tho that support your narrative.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Iraq war was pretty fucking recent. More civilians killed than any act of terror by the terrorists. More black people in prison that were ever slaves. You just chose to restrict your idea of bad to tho that support your narrative.

While this is spot the fuck on in some ways, the only way to even begin diagnosing these very real issues is by championing liberalism on all fronts- something the US in particular seems to wield without any understanding and -occasionally unwittingly- devolves into neoliberal idiocy. Regardless, the corollary with incarceration and slavery is obtuse, at best, as its cause is -hey, once the fuck again- rooted in compounded socioeconomic policy that simply cannot be emancipated nor state-sanctioned-executed away. Fix the economic playing field for all, and you don't have people in terrorist or criminal gangs in any meaningful capacity. Until then, there does exist an objectively correct basis for government, and it stands upon humanistic, secular constitutionality, full stop. Wresting power from the fuckheaded mullahs and congressmen the world over who don't want this is the essence of every worthwhile struggle for civil rights, and it is by no means restricted to one superpower or another.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Iraq war was pretty fucking recent. More civilians killed than any act of terror by the terrorists. More black people in prison that were ever slaves. You just chose to restrict your idea of bad to tho that support your narrative.

i choose to be realistic with my thoughts, not restrict them. as an immigrant that moved to USA some time ago, i love this country for giving me the opportunity to live in a normal society and appreciate what was offered. i've never been to jail, and your statement about "More black people in prison that were ever slaves"... has nothing to do with me...that is a personal choice people make.
If USA is so bad, then why are people trying to move here in record numbers ? I hope you feel the same about wherever you are from.. otherwise, you're probably the part of the problem

quote:

Originally posted by Serial Killer "More black people in prison that were ever slaves"... has nothing to do with me...that is a personal choice people make.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.