I gather you aren't as supportive of such an operation or argument

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American military involvement in the Middle East is nailed to the top of the big list of things self-respecting lefties have to be reflexively cynical towards, regardless of specifics.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lews I gather you aren't as supportive of such an operation or argument

Well personally, I am conflicted over the entire thing, as I feel any reasonable person ought to be.

Of course ISIS should be liquidated. Islamofascism should be eradicated from all corners of the globe- but that's more of a wish than any endorsement of strategy.

The fervor of that very Christian campaign into the holy lands has of course cooled since the Enlightenment, but if underpinnings of ISIS' very existence, and indeed that of jihad in the first place, is to be assessed with any wisdom, it seems to me that nearly any religion can find within its annals justification to forcibly convert, destroy, subjugate, assimilate, extract, tax, and otherwise manipulate its stated adversaries- and recruit The Youth from there.

The Vatican approving of yet another campaign whose stated goal is anything but forgiveness and demonstrations of tolerance, humanitarianism, plurality, and non-violence appears to me the selfsame twisted logic that Islamists employ to vindicate their transgressions. I know there exists a stout divorce in textual discourse concerning the two- The Hadith is rather plagued with endorsements of all manner of ignoble things- but that seems all the more reason for Catholics to turn the other cheek, or at the very least pretend as though their regard for the hundreds of thousands of non-Christians in the region matter the tiniest fuck to them, too.

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quote:

Originally posted by OrangestO Saddam was the answer.

What was the question?

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow He has the moral fiber of Wonder bread. Chickenhawk (politics) For other uses, see Chickenhawk. Chickenhawk (also chicken hawk and chicken-hawk) is a political term used in the United States to describe a person who strongly supports war or other military action (i.e., a war hawk), yet who actively avoided military service when of age. The term indicates that the person in question is hypocritical for personally dodging a draft or otherwise shirking their duty to their country during a time of armed conflict while advocating that others do so. Generally, the implication is that chickenhawks lack the moral character to ask others to support, fight and perhaps die in an armed conflict. Those who avoid military service and continue to oppose armed aggression are not chickenhawks.

Well a few years ago everyone was going on about how going to fight was just being a tool for oil and construction companies. And now they're watching videos of these guys parading around with severed heads and quite possibly are getting legitimately worked up about it.

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IGK is a fucking moron. I never supported the war in Iraq. I never advocated for it. It was possibly the biggest mistake the US has ever made in terms of foreign policy and military action.

It is not being a chicken hawk when there is a now a legitimate reason for the use of force and you support that.

Furthermore, it is not like me joining or not joining would have any measurable effect on this fight. We're providing air support and delivering aide. The ground fighting is being done by other people (obviously with some western SOF help).

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow What was the question?

Crisis in the Middle East for $1000, Alex.

Although a dictator, who brought somewhat of a stable environment to a region that had no other option and opposed the United States?

I left the Army intentionally because I didn't believe in this war.

Please illuminate me ninjas.

ISIS is BAD NEWS.

But this is the spillage from a pool of blood that's been draining for years, decades, centuries.

Bombing is not the fucking answer. Break the cycle ninjas!

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well personally, I am conflicted over the entire thing, as I feel any reasonable person ought to be. Of course ISIS should be liquidated. Islamofascism should be eradicated from all corners of the globe- but that's more of a wish than any endorsement of strategy.

I'm with you so far.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On The fervor of that very Christian campaign into the holy lands has of course cooled since the Enlightenment, but if underpinnings of ISIS' very existence, and indeed that of jihad in the first place, is to be assessed with any wisdom, it seems to me that nearly any religion can find within its annals justification to forcibly convert, destroy, subjugate, assimilate, extract, tax, and otherwise manipulate its stated adversaries- and recruit The Youth from there.

Well, yes, most religions could definitely find such justification if they wanted to. I'm kind of confused about what that has to do with not wanting to bomb ISIS.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On The Vatican approving of yet another campaign whose stated goal is anything but forgiveness and demonstrations of tolerance, humanitarianism, plurality, and non-violence appears to me the selfsame twisted logic that Islamists employ to vindicate their transgressions. I know there exists a stout divorce in textual discourse concerning the two- The Hadith is rather plagued with endorsements of all manner of ignoble things- but that seems all the more reason for Catholics to turn the other cheek, or at the very least pretend as though their regard for the hundreds of thousands of non-Christians in the region matter the tiniest fuck to them, too.

It's rather difficult to be tolerant with a group of people who even Al Qaeda called too extreme.

Despite my joke about another Crusade, I think it speaks to how terrible ISIS is that the Vatican is condoning violence to stop them. I'm not sure if the article I linked to mentioned this or not, but the Vatican didn't support either the 2003 or the 1990 actions against Saddam - the latter of which most people in the world agree was a legitimate use of force. For the most part the Vatican has been extremely anti-war for a number of decades (at the least) now.

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quote:

Originally posted by FuzzQi Well a few years ago everyone was going on about how going to fight was just being a tool for oil and construction companies. And now they're watching videos of these guys parading around with severed heads and quite possibly are getting legitimately worked up about it.

Nou gets an erection whenever there's geopolitical conflict. He has a habit of over stating the obvious. This is a form of entertainment for a lonely chickenhawk.

Our current position of not committing troups on the ground is wise. Isis is actually helping us get rid of Malki and hopefully form a government that represents the three factions.

Isis would not be a threat and would have little power if it were not for them being supported by disgruntled factions inside Iraq and the disfunction that exists.

Dropping bombs on Isis is short term solution to a very difficult and complex internal struggle.

There are no easy solutions.

Last edited by on Aug-14-2014 at 03:32

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow Nou gets an erection whenever there's geopolitical conflict. He has a habit of over stating the obvious. This is a form of entertainment for a lonely chickenhawk. Our current position of not committing troups on the ground is wise. Isis is actually helping us get rid of Malki and hopefully form a government that represents the three factions. Isis would not be a threat and would have little power if it were not for them being supported by disgruntled factions inside Iraq. Dropping bombs on Isis is short term solution to a very difficult and complex internal struggle. There are no easy solutions.

wtf are you on about?

Also we placed regular forces on to Mt. Sinjar today, they are to supplement the US and British special forces that have been there for a few days now and they are trying to figure out how to evacuate the mountain, probably by establishing a humanitarian corridor into the more northern Kurdish regions of Iraq and on to Turkey.