Watched all 3 hours... some interesting insight into mixing and production...

Really hit me the part where he talked about making the best mix with only volume faders. I should work on that more...

thanks for sharing. i thought i'd have a tough time watching all 3 videos but he's a very concise speakers

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Originally posted by djnitride Really hit me the part where he talked about making the best mix with only volume faders. I should work on that more...

me too, and the "get in 80% right" part really resonated with me too. i tend to spend way too long on nitpicky details then realize that not only have i not made any real progress but i've killed the creative mindset i was in.

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I've wasted so much time, hours at a time, making tiny changes to things and when you go back and A/B the two rendered files you realise there is little to no difference at all and nobody but you can tell the difference.

I still do it now and I really need to stop and break the habit.

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Originally posted by Andy28 I've wasted so much time, hours at a time, making tiny changes to things and when you go back and A/B the two rendered files you realise there is little to no difference at all and nobody but you can tell the difference. I still do it now and I really need to stop and break the habit.

I have killed a few tracks that way, just had to put them away and come back to them at a later time when I can actually be objective again.

Yeah Dizzy, the 80% thing is so true.

Last edited by djnitride on Apr-13-2015 at 17:51

I am not so sure about the whole 80% thing at least to a casual producer. I think that is a personal choice Joel made because he could and he had the resources to be able to do that.
Granted, he was referencing Joel and as most of us knowing his body of work he has produced,it is a very complete library,but..
Just because he can bang out tons of music does not make it all quality works of art. And I believe the songs he puts out NOW is all based on his experience with doing what he did,busting out track after track.

The reference Steve makes with Joel's flipping through bass samples is something I like to call auditioning. I to do the same thing and know when I reach that exact tonality that I am looking for. But the 80% putting together comment...I don't know. I have always been the type who likes to hear everything the mix is going to offer, in it's fullest,right from the start (as much as possible). I produce a song like I would read a book. If it doesn't hit me in 10 pages/sec, it gets put down. If I were to just make a "template" or base design of a song down, it kind of ruins it for me because I find that I am unable to draw up unique expressions or changes at certain key progression times. In a nutshell, I like to develop my tracks not add pieces to a puzzle.

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Last edited by SystematicX1 on Apr-13-2015 at 18:58

2nd vid, 31 minutes in he's on about shortening kick drums.
Well I was judicious doing this on my wips on here but people told me 'your kik is lacking in sub, too short' so I started lengthening them but to this day I've felt conflicted about this as I just know in a club it wont be as clean and impactful. Problem is a lot of people will listen on buds and what not so it's a bit of a trade off.

Even recently when I am inclined to remove a fair bit of sub some folk are telling me I need more sub, so I don 't know quite where the good / bad balance lays.

Thanks for posting this up, what a fascinating guy. I love 'a standing wall of bass wave is like sitting on a motor boat, it's not interesting sound at all'.

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quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 I am not so sure about the whole 80% thing at least to a casual producer. I think that is a personal choice Joel made because he could and he had the resources to be able to do that. Granted, he was referencing Joel and as most of us knowing his body of work he has produced,it is a very complete library,but.. Just because he can bang out tons of music does not make it all quality works of art. And I believe the songs he puts out NOW is all based on his experience with doing what he did,busting out track after track. The reference Steve makes with Joel's flipping through bass samples is something I like to call auditioning. I to do the same thing and know when I reach that exact tonality that I am looking for. But the 80% putting together comment...I don't know. I have always been the type who likes to hear everything the mix is going to offer, in it's fullest,right from the start (as much as possible). I produce a song like I would read a book. If it doesn't hit me in 10 pages/sec, it gets put down. If I were to just make a "template" or base design of a song down, it kind of ruins it for me because I find that I am unable to draw up unique expressions or changes at certain key progression times. In a nutshell, I like to develop my tracks not add pieces to a puzzle.

The point he's making is that we can tend to spend too much time obsessing over the details, when really what you need to do is get the damn track made.

The book analogy is exactly the same thing. Every decent professional writer I have ever known gets the main story out as a "flow" (even if it's detailed) and then goes back later to edit, refine and floralize etc.

There's very few people who actually have both the talent and presence of mind to be able to work in minutiae from the start yet retain the big picture. I mean literally one or two.

Even my old boss (prolific + oscar winning composer) would have all the details in his head but still, getting it down and out fast, then later fleshing it out was always his best way of working.

You also have to realize that so much of art, whether it be music, wirting or painting is repetition; getting good at something quickly so certain tasks become second nature. Those "classics" that certain artists make aren't some single divine act of genius - they're the result of years of repetition that allowed them to have that unfettered creative moment that led to gold.

I really can't name any person that just made that one amazing thing by just concentrating on getting it perfect until it was ready. They were all the fruit of previous labors.

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Originally posted by Richard Butler 2nd vid, 31 minutes in he's on about shortening kick drums. Well I was judicious doing this on my wips on here but people told me 'your kik is lacking in sub, too short' so I started lengthening them but to this day I've felt conflicted about this as I just know in a club it wont be as clean and impactful. Problem is a lot of people will listen on buds and what not so it's a bit of a trade off. Even recently when I am inclined to remove a fair bit of sub some folk are telling me I need more sub, so I don 't know quite where the good / bad balance lays. Thanks for posting this up, what a fascinating guy. I love 'a standing wall of bass wave is like sitting on a motor boat, it's not interesting sound at all'.

its a tricky one Richard - what ive discovered is that you get more power from 100Hz upward - having a kick with a big boomy tail will only work in a club setting really

Good few times i made a track with a big boomy kick, sounds great on the SM9s - play it back in the earbuds and its like where did my kick go to???

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I had a go at watching the jaytech series.

I fucking love Jaytechs productions, probably bought more of his tracks over the past 6 years than any other producer but I have to say I was a little disappointed in the series and the Duda session, while not as hands on was much more inspiring.

I think the problem is that so much of jaytech's pull comes from how he arranges and composes and he kind of glossed over those aspects - in fairness, I wouldn't give a step by step on how to rip me off if I was him either lol - but I felt that a lot of what he does is innate, r gleaned from experience and doing it over and over again, and those things weren't explained.

For instance, jaytech tracks always has these great layerings of 4th, 8th, 16th and 32nd notes that make these really driving grooves. It's the art or science of this which really defines his sound and there was little on that apart from a section on complexity.

Duda seems to give way more in terms of those 'mixing with your mind" pearls of wisdom - like the seemingly esoteric things that actually make pefect sense and it's not "turn your EQ to X" which tells you how to change one sound, it's more like workflow things that change your entire way of thinking.

Was a while ago when I watched but from what I remember I enjoyed it..
I think the jaytech one was very structured and pre-planned, all done to a schedule so maybe thats why he only touched over things briefly. I think he also mentions that this was his second one so maybe he didn't want to repeat anything from the first?

Duda is just different, he'd make an excellent teacher. He draws you in and explains things in a way that you understand, so you just "get it" if you know what I mean. He makes everything sound so simple and has the knack for it. He also seems the type who will tell you straight what he knows to help unlike other producers who have littles tips and secrets that they won't reveal for whatever reason? I've never quite understood why as having the knowhow is one thing, being able to execute it is another.

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Originally posted by evo8 its a tricky one Richard - what ive discovered is that you get more power from 100Hz upward - having a kick with a big boomy tail will only work in a club setting really Good few times i made a track with a big boomy kick, sounds great on the SM9s - play it back in the earbuds and its like where did my kick go to???

opposite really. Big kicks work on small speakers. THe illusion of the big is the mid content which doesn't really have the same effect/ The roundness also works better with bass drivers and you will get compression anyways.

909s sound terrible until you hear it on a huge pa.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney opposite really. Big kicks work on small speakers. THe illusion of the big is the mid content which doesn't really have the same effect/ The roundness also works better with bass drivers and you will get compression anyways. 909s sound terrible until you hear it on a huge pa.

your saying what im saying - kicks with a lot of sub content wont work on small speakers

agree about 909s on big systems

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