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Originally posted by InsomnEac True, but I think Izzy was referring mostly to a Government's position on whatever issue... who would obviously have better access to information than you or I.

Yes. I got to think of that the second I pressed "Submit Reply".

But even for governments, some individuals would have to gain the necessary overview to come to a conclusion. Then their conclusion would represent the rest of the people in the country. Guess, that's representative democracy for you.

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I agree the Swiss conduct during WWII was reprehensible

Couldn't help but agree.

They claimed neutrality, but when push came to shove (possibly to protect themselves, I'm not exactly sure) they ended up aiding the Nazis more than anything else. Even today, the money and possessions stolen from the Jews by the Nazis, and then laundered in Switzerland by the Nazis, continues to resurface. Nazi wealth has been sitting in Swiss banks for close to 60 years, and we still call them neutral? Neutrality would involve telling the Nazis to invest their money elsewhere shouldn't it? I'm pretty sure the action of offering a safe-haven for this blood-money wouldn't fit under most definitions of neutrality? Or am I just being silly?

Though having said that, I see no problems with neutrality so long as it is "genuine" neutrality. Australia, historically, for instance, has been quick to enter wars that do not immediately concern it (Boer War, WW1, Vietman etc.) and I shudder to think how many Australian lives have been lost fighting someone elses war. Conflicts are not so black-and-white, and it doesn't make sense, much of the time, to pick a side merely to avoid being seen as neutral.

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Originally posted by Renegade Though having said that, I see no problems with neutrality so long as it is "genuine" neutrality. Australia, historically, for instance, has been quick to enter wars that do not immediately concern it (Boer War, WW1, Vietman etc.) and I shudder to think how many Australian lives have been lost fighting someone elses war.

sad eh?

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Don't forget Switzerland helped tons of jews by letting them in the country. But at one point they had to stop. Their own people had to eat aswell! The fact that the Swiss government bought the freedom of it's own people with gold is a shame.

But nowadays Swiss contribute so much in international help (Red Cross etc) we should forgive them.

What is neutral? Swiss economy depends on Germany, France and Italy. They recently joined the United Nations. 20% of all Swiss are foreigners etc etc...

Switzerland has not seen war since 600 years. By being neutral they could keep internal affairs under control: 3 different languages means 3 different cultures. Without their neutrality the country would have fallen apart, or a civil war would haven started long ago!

If u can and want help neutrality is always wrong. Saying "both are right" or "both are wrong" always encourages the conflict and never solves it. If you have no clue and don't wanna take sides (for me that would be judging the Congo/rwanda for example) you better openly proclaim your cluelessness instead of hiding behind "well both are partly to blame" phrases. Of course there's no black and white and in every war you somehow got legitmate claims of each side but still, in order to get to a solution you'l have to find the the side which is a bit more....well.. "right". Example: India vs. Pakistan. Killings on both sides but pakistan is the country harboring Terrorists which now and then heat up the entire region with strikes in the Cashmir area. Both sides use violence but one's violence is a re-active one and the other is the provocing one. ..em..yeah

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

so pplz....this is no protection and beautification aginst the truth (note the one of cosmic gate!) of your posts and the history, this is only for information and my opinion about switzerland & neutrality!

nearby, nice thread here..!

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neutrality is a kind of the case that bush pointed out in his terror doctrine - those who lead a blind eye to terrorism are terrorist themselves

neutrality - in our case (and others), we do not lead a blind eye to them, we have also our security services to catch these crime pplz!
To searching after terrorists world wide it isn't important to be in neutrality - all countries do that...also we (the neutrals) to protect us!

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Juricimo PREACH ON!!! i totally agree with the above statements. neutrality works in Switzerland's case. in USA's case, no way.

absolutly true!

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occrider Although the swiss have been departing from that stance in recent times (joining the EU) I believe they've been somewhat criminal in the past by remaining completely neutral (WW2).

Nowadays, Switzerland hasn't joined the EU! The second part of your sentence isn't completly correct! Its very difficult the explain that...!

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CortexBomb I have to agree with you that staunch neutrality on a majority of issues is a bit of a cop out of sorts, but I think you also have to look at the relative power of the countries involved...if you aren't a world power you have to do what it takes to survive at times. I agree the Swiss conduct during WWII was reprehensible, along with the catholic church, but beyond that I can understand their foreign policy. It's a survival tool that's worked well to this point, and I don't think anyone feels serious hatred for them, so they're definitely doing something right. I think in a world where you have a stronger UN to protect smaller countries like that, you'd see them reconsider their stance, as I said, I consider it more of a safety mechanism than anything. If you make it unneccesary it'd likely change.

nice and true statment!

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Nazi wealth has been sitting in Swiss banks for close to 60 years, and we still call them neutral?

This isnt correct! The money was there, but the money belongs the Jews...not the Nazis..they arent any more since 57 years...and Germany did never demand after this money for themself! And also after the complaint of the US justice some years before, there were 3 Billions for the Jews spoken...i know..nothing can made WW2 forgotten!

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I'm pretty sure the action of offering a safe-haven for this blood-money wouldn't fit under most definitions of neutrality? Or am I just being silly?

See ie CortexBomb

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Don't forget Switzerland helped "tons of jews by letting them in the country. But at one point they had to stop. Their own people had to eat as well (true)! The fact that the Swiss government bought the freedom of it's own people with gold is a shame. The Gold History - not at all, but most things are true But nowadays Swiss contribute so much in international help (Red Cross etc) we should forgive them. What is neutral? Swiss economy depends on Germany, France and Italy. They recently joined the United Nations. 20% of all Swiss are foreigners more! Switzerland has not seen war since 600 years. By being neutral they could keep internal affairs under control: 3 4 different languages means 3 4 different cultures. Without their neutrality the country would have fallen apart, or a civil war would haven started long ago!

well done..i see, you know much over us! ! From where do you know this facts...history lessons?

Now back to the Topic!
Short:
whats is your opinion on neutrality when it comes to issues and a contries policies (ie switzerland)? i'm not talking about some ordinary topic that has no affect on you but rather more broader and general topics.

My opinion into the History:
Fact is, that the swiss neutrality leads back to year 13xx or the beginning of the 14 century! Beacuse Swiss is so small and we havent really a chance against any others military forces from outside, we edecided to be neutrally! Since thsi time up to 1798 we didnt had any wars or problems with our neighbours! Consider, that France, Germany, Italia, Spain etc. had long wars such as the 30 years during war! After the french revolution was switzerland the first country in europe (worldwide the second after usa) with a democratie! While half Europe had the Wolrd War 1 which was really stupid...didnt participiate and we didnt destroy our country!
WW2 - some things went wrong - but there is more than explanation therefore:
- we're neutrally - no war - "no official alliance" - no destruction
- do you think germany couldn't get into switzerland in WW2, their army was so much biger than ours! i think, in fact, they used switzerland for money transactions. Nearby - in the frist 3 years of WW2 Germany could get coal & stell (others) over switzerland from USA and others rivals!


They (Nazis) used us and we used them to escape from the totally destruction! It was not one of the finest hours of Switzerlands histroy - we know that!

Nowadays - in Switzerlands case:
We cant say its good the be neutrally today, its a way...such as to be the "bad" or the "good" one! None of these ways is the right - the mix it is! But, i'm happy that we arent into a NATO because its a (needed) war engine (in some cases its also helpful to help with violence! I'm happy the be into the UN (voted over this last year => yes) there we can help and do our way of helping, humanitarian!

At last, this is an endless discussion, such as all other too! why isnt there anyone / anything who has the force to unify the whole world? The world can never be made fairly for all, but we all can made it fairlyer for all of us...this will take time!

Lotadeus

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Essential selection Switzerland 2008

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Frank-HH: Alles viel zu Geil hier! Overseas: Wir sind ja nicht zum Spass hier! Das höchste Gut im Leben ist Gesundheit und Liebe...

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well done..i see, you know much over us! ! From where do you know this facts...history lessons?

General interest and I ski in Engelberg/Laax/Davos/Grindelwald

The Rethoromanic language/culture hasn't got that much importance

Although most traffic signs are in two languages

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The Rethoromanic language/culture hasn't got that much importance Although most traffic signs are in two languages

so it is...but into swiss...we say that we have 4 cultures..!


General interest

Hmm...you're from Holland, are you? Hm...i have also a lot of General interests but was never there (Holland) ! And i also dont know much about your cultutre...!

so, bybeybe!

Lotadeus

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FFM Überseetouristik Sorglos Service GmbH
Lässt mich träumen...
Essential selection Switzerland 2008

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Frank-HH: Alles viel zu Geil hier! Overseas: Wir sind ja nicht zum Spass hier! Das höchste Gut im Leben ist Gesundheit und Liebe...

Schwitzerdutsch sounds like Frysian, a language spoken in a northern province.

Uf widerluecke

Btw: I like the taste of Swiss mountain weed