And it looks like Malcolm Fraser agress with me:

The Big Lies of 'Border Protection'

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

meh
i doubt there will ever be a solution to the refugee/ illegal immigrant situation

sifntj0r renagade just owned you hard dipshit, you are a typical ignorant retarded sheep that our governmnet loves cause you beleive everything they want you to, Howard won the election thanks to fucktards like you.

Ive been inside a refugee centre and its not far off prison.

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For what its worth a few points of clarification on the Aboriginal people.

its a myth to say that Indigenous Australians have no concept of land ownership or system of laws.

Indigenous laws were not codified because they did not have writing, doesnt mean they didnt exist.

The concept of 'terra nullius' (vacant land) was a legal fiction to justify dispossession. The lie the English used to steal the land from Indigenous people in Australia is the same lie used by the Jews to steal land from the Palestinians. Nothing ever really changes.

The fact that some of the Indigenous people and Palestinians were migratory does not mean the land didnt belong to them.

Unlike Israel however Australia has(better late than never) recognised the prior ownership of the land and apologised for stealing it.

The problem with the Native Title system is trying to prove ownership, trying to prove an uninterupted connection to the land. I believe currently Indigenous Australians make up under 1% of the population and have native title rights to about 13% of the land.

Mining companies and pastoralists that do have leases of land that is or may be subject to native title are required to consult with the native title holders.

The problems faced by Indigenous Australians are many(enough to fill plenty of books) but are mainly driven by poverty due to isolation, most Indigenous people live in isolated communities with little access to meaningful employment. Australian governments state and federal do a lot to help them but it is difficult to erase the crimes of 200 years overnight.

A good point I saw raised once in a book, is that the Aborigines are Australia's silent people.

You just never see them anywhere - granted they are a small percentage of the population, but you just never see an Aborigine delivering mail, serving coffee, fixing a phone line, working in an office... it's almost as if they don't exist

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I wont comment on the Aborigine issue as as far as I'm concerned I'll probably get in trouble for it.


My parents are immigrants, and yes I was born in Australia. I like to think of myself as a realist and not a racist though. Quite frankly I feel the government has every right to protect our shores from immigrants. I ask u this about the countries these people are coming from. Yes, granted some are opressive. YOu have to look at the history of immigrants migrating to AUstralia on the boats. In the 1950's-60's when the Greeks and Italian graced the AUstralia shores we didn't stick to our suburbs etc. WE assimilated. ANd this is what this debate comes down to. Assimilataion, Screw multiculturalism, u come to australia u got to live the Australian way of life, not another life. This is no offence to the Middle eastern people of the world but quite frankly they refuse to accept AUstralian society for the way it is. Take NSW for example and the lebanese population there, and the recent rape attacks that happened. What is happening is australia is accepting these people under the grounds of multiculturalism but its under these ground that is undermining our whole society as a whole. Kids even been born in AUstralia are taking middle eastern attitudes towards people and that is frightenning.


Therefore come to Australia but come through the correct way, save u time and save us time and our tax.


Cheers,

Multicultarism shmamev.

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Oh, life is bigger ,It's bigger than you,And you are not me,The lengths that I will go to, The distance in your eyes ,Oh no, I've said too much, I set it up

That's me in the corner, That's me in the spotlight, I'm Losing my religion, Trying to keep up with you ,And I don't know if I can do it, Oh no, I've said too much,I haven't said enough, I thought that I heard you laughing, I thought that I heard you sing, I think I thought I saw you try.

But that was just a dream, That was just a dream, But that was just a dream, Try, cry, why try? That was just a dream ,Just a dream, just a dream, Dream

interesting point paul

with refugees..
i dunno where i stand exactly...
if your race or religion or way of life is being opressed and persecuted and you want out, then sure, leave the country and go live somewhere else. if the only way you can do that is by paying someone to hide on a boat then so be it. BUT, if that boat stops at other countries where you can live but you keep going because you want a certain country, well then if you get denied i think too bad. the country you really want to get to might be better off than the other stops but if they will accept you then why not go there?

and about their treatment? have you been to a camp? i havent so i dont make comment about specific conditions. people say they are treated like criminals. well they are! they are illegally trying to enter a country that doesn't know who they are, why they are coming, what they bring with them. what do you expect the government to do with them? they need to be checked out and processed as citizens if they are allowed to stay. what would you have them do while they wait? live it up in hotels payed for by taxpayers? or keep them in a camp with friends and family who came with them? people say they get treated bad, but how do you know none of them are murderers or rapists or came here to help set up extremist groups or terrorist cells?

that last sentence may sound extreme but these are things the government needs to take into account when they decide if these people should stay or go.

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new set online, Summer Journeys

quote:

Originally posted by webmeister A good point I saw raised once in a book, is that the Aborigines are Australia's silent people. You just never see them anywhere - granted they are a small percentage of the population, but you just never see an Aborigine delivering mail, serving coffee, fixing a phone line, working in an office... it's almost as if they don't exist

i agree!! i dont see any aborigines around. you see a couple in the city, but they are usually crouching down on doorsteps with a paper bag looking like theres a bottle of alcohol inside...

a thing i also notice is schools! maybe there arent many living in this part of the country but i dont remember seeing any aborigines in primary or seconday school and i also dont think ive seen any at uni, which i think is kind of sad.

i think the reason the howard government doesn't apologise is the same reason why no other government or individual or corporation wants to apologise for anything big, it means they were wrong and if they admit they were wrong then people can sue them. thats pretty much why i think they havent done it. i think it would be a nice gesture if the government of today could apologise and acknowledge what past governments have done, but then they could get all these claims for compensation, whether its deserved or not im not saying but i think they dont want to have to face a hundred lawsuits from people claiming hundreds of thousands of dollars compensation for what has happened in the past.

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new set online, Summer Journeys

i really wish people wouldnt be so quick to make such detrimental generalisations...

there will ALWAYS be a few bad eggs in every basket, middle eastern, asian, caucasian, greek - whoever, but it doenst mean u have to take the bad qualities of a select few and brand the whole group respectively

i have many many middle eastern friends (who have assimilated quite well thank you very much) and quite frankly it disheartens me to read such negative remarks.

As far as the "illegal" immigrants are concerned, a vast majority of these people are indeed true refugees who come to australia to escape persecution and are not the queue jumpers as our government would like us to believe. The fact is that these refugees are not illegal - they are allowed, under international law to seek asylum in another country if they are being persecuted in their own. Granted there is a proportion who come to Australia as economic migrants - those just seeking a better life and not fleeing persecution and i suppose there will be problems in seperating the two, but mandatory detention imo is not the answer - Australia is the only western country in the world that supports this policy, surely that says something. These people would be much better off out in the community, working, contributing to society, possibly in rural areas where such a working population is sorely needed, all while being processed. disagree with the view on boat people being a terrorist threat - as simplistic as this might sound, you'd think that members of highly organised terrorist groups would have the resources and funds to fly where they wanted to go.

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nothing to see here... move along please

yeah of course there are genuine refugess but what else can they do about it? they need to wait and be checked out and have their refugee status and stuff organised. they could probably have better conditions but i think the principle of keeping them together in one place while they wait is right. if you just decide to turn up to another country on a rickety boat with possibly no papers or anything what do you expect? to be welcomed with open arms and hear 'hey, how u doin? was your journey a good one?' it sounds harsh but i dont think thats the right way. they should be hearing 'hi, welcome to australia, please stay here for a while while we check you out and grant you refugee status. then you are free to go.'

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new set online, Summer Journeys

why is it then that the process of placing the refugees in the community works so well in other countries?
i agree we cant just straight off send them out, you need to run the necessary identity and criminal checks, but once these are out of the way, the asylum seekers should be allowed out into the community while their refugee status is processed. Like i said before, they can contribute to society this way - much more humane and much more cost effective if you ask me. Locking them up, treating them like criminals is the wrong thing to do, especially when a large proportion of these people are fleeing these very conditions in their country of origin - ive read that 60% of refugees are found to be victims of severe torture and trauma... just try to put yourselves in their shoes

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nothing to see here... move along please

quote:

Originally posted by sifntj0r yes that's right, it's the governments fault when immigrants try to enter our country illegally have you even seen the footage from the navy of the overboard incident? it looks like they are throwing people overboard, so forgive some middle-level government employee for leaking it to the press who then claim it to be the stance of the entire government. oh yes, poor refugee's in woomera, again, if you have seen footage of the antics that they get up to, i'm fucking glad they're locked up. instead of listening to some rich, retarded university student who whines on national tv via the current affairs programmes, try reading/listening to some accounts given by the detention officers who actually run the facility. your views seem very one sided, try listen to both sides and make your mind up.

This guys views seem very ignorant.........we all know now that the children over board issue was a lie by our wonderful government.
Oh well at least it got the bastard re-elected.

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