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DrUg_Tit0
e^(i*pi)+1=0



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

I like your post, Arbiter, basically my ideas, but said better than I would do it

Also, one more problem I see with the current system that it is becomming pretty decadent, people are losing perspective and only looking at small details around them, ignoring the big picture. Mass media supports that, by offering people what they want, so most of it is cheap unintellectual entertainment, not many documentaries on tv anymore. And that in turn makes people even more narrow-minded.

On the other side, some other mentalities and governments (China, India, Islamic world) have more perspective and unity.

I'll try to pull an analogy between Roman Empire and the USA today. After death of Julius Caesar and August, the society started to turn in on itself. There was no pressure from the outside, people were thinking only about their own problems, luxuries became more available...Old gods lost their importance, Roman agressive ideals were lost also... That situation, together with opressed peasants led to adopting Christianity as a side effect. There's no way christianity would have been adopted in rome 200 hundred years before. There were cults similar to christianity before, but they were irrelevant, due to strong national unity. The system started to grow weaker, there were many internal conflicts, but the system still functioned, more on inertia than anything else. Nut much more was achieved scientifically after that period also. Even later, about 200 AD, did it seem that there could be any other system in the world except the Roman Empire? And only 276 years later, primitive, unorganized tribes destroyed that world and made a new one. It was not due to their military might, although the Roman army wasn't what it was hundreds of years ago, it was due to decadence and corruption, it happened because people cared only about themselves, and not their country. The new world was not better, it was in fact worse in many ways, but a change did come, when 300 years ago it was unthought of, at least in that way.

USA has also gone through its pioneering years, there is no more threats from the outside, sort of a "pax romana" has been reached. People are becoming less interested about the world, education is suffering, the ideals of the american republic are either not the same, or used for corrupted purposes, so people don't have as much faith as they had in it 50 years ago. And also, here we have unsattisfied middle east, many primitive fanatical groups. But the problem is in the inside. Every now and then, a teenager gets a gun and starts shooting at everybody around him. Half the population has their own shrink, the other half is on pills. That is a sign of a society that is not functioning good anymore. Banning guns won't achieve much, the system must be changed. On the other hand people in the US are thinking mostly about what's going to be on the TV tonight. 13% of people aged 18-24 can pinpoint Iraq on a world map. The rest can't. And the situation is not improving, it is getting worse. Also, amount of scientific research and project is dropping. America abandoned its space program, mainly concerned about its wellfare and self susteinance, so now India and China are taking over.

So it seems for me that this system is also going to go forward for a while based on inertia, but sooner or later it will fall. Whether the new one will be better, I don't know.


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Old Post Jan-08-2003 23:10  Croatia
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

quote:
Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
I like your post, Arbiter, basically my ideas, but said better than I would do it


Ya, much better then my post-midnight post for sure. Here's another one of those of mines for you.

I want to correct you Tit0 on a few things - First you would be hard pressed to make such a bold conclusion as "chirstanity took over the roman empire because it was decedant and it couldn't of happened 200 years earlier". Believe me (as a fellow history minor) the historians would go absolutely crazy at you!

Romans considered themselves decaying morally ever since their Early Monarchy. "Things were beter then" is a theme you see reoccuring in Roman literature and thought often, and a theme now carried on.

And believe me, historians can name 200,000 things what cause the end of Rome. And as one of my teachers actually noted to me and her fellow students; "Be suspicious of the man that tells you THE reason for the fall of Rome, because the one who does this will somehow attribute todays reason for the fall of Rome". She backed this up of course, proving that in WWII people pointed to the increasing Facsim of Rome as its fall, during communisim its social programs and welfare.. etc, etc, etc...

Just because American society is so "comfortable" does not mean they will nessecairly come to a decline. This point, is just often cited by multiculturalist, and other cultures that fear US culture as dominating and successfully influential over their meger cultures.

In fact one can make an effort to state that this "comfort" keeps America on its toes. By making people comfortable, they are less interested in war, and issues that compromise their comfort - such as religion, facisim, communism, fanaticism, ants going through mazes, and so forth. It in a sense keeps the US that "sleeping Giant", that Mr. Other Japanese (this guy an Admiral) warned his emporer about pre-WWII.

And it is this comfort also which attracts hordes of immigrants form across the world to venture dangerous terks sometime, for the promise pf this comfort so they can build better lives for themselves. These immigrants contribute to the "melting pot" of the US, and expand its research, progress and science.

You must also note, that this epoch of government model of the US, does not have to reside soley in the US for it to be the end of history. The US can be extinct, and China, or Crotia can be the governing superpower of the world - Mr. Japense (the epic one) claims that they will share this same model of government - democracy, freedom, and capitilism.

And altough, I still don't know if I agree with this assessment, I can at least say, that for one thing. We have reached a cornerstone.

Old Post Jan-10-2003 07:01  Israel
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TranceGiant
randomly disappoints



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: (Strudel)-City that never sleeps

I donno..I think that Arbiter and you are criticizing many details, weak points(I agree on many points) but not the system itself. Personally I really don't see any funadamental improvements or big alternatives, unless those Raelians manage to clone ppl, leaving out egoism, greed and fear. Then anarchy would be the ideal society.


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Old Post Jan-10-2003 12:18  United States
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Izzy
Virtue & Vice



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: TX TA #5

nice thread


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Old Post Jan-11-2003 03:05 
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