"When people are cheering in the club, most of the time they are cheering the tune - not the guy who's playing it... "


I AGREE though i often fall victim of the "wow, what a great DJ" syndrome when a gret song is being played. DJ's are modern day priests/shamans/monks.....with all their connotations....positive or negative...though often held in awe and worshipped..DJ's and religious figureheads are merely a medium, a middle-man between us and the "other" side

Not to stray off topic, but why's everybody saying trance is going mainstream? If by mainstream you mean thats usually the first club music that people start off with, well thats nothing new. I live and go to school in the Washington dc area, and there's a big dance scene here, but when I tell people in school I spin trance, 98 out of 100 go "What's trance?"

Most people I know who like trance also like house, progressive and jungle, so if trance was really becoming mainstream I don't see why those wouldn't be mainstream either.

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Originally posted by CynepMeH Anywho - you got me thinkin... If you can't break through spinnin' trance and producing trance... how come so many ppl are being recognized??? Right - coz' u can! It's just harder. Look around - for everything you see there's at least one competitor, if not more... Hell, how many cell shops do you see around??? Everyone has a cell now, there's a cellphone store around every corner - and everyone makes out allright... Not an ideal analogy, but I hope u get the point. And by the way, few months ago I decided to see how hard would it be to produce something like Armin's Sunburn... Guess what, within 2 weeks I was able to replicate the track almost down to the last bit. Granted, it takes a long time to experiment with sounds, come up with an idea, lay it down, mix it master it, etc...

I definitely agree with you. I wasn't trying to say that you can't become succesfull at all. My point was that people who want to be "the next Tiesto" are just deceiving themselves - because it's impossible. Now I don't mean literally - of course that's impossible - but i mean stylistically.

If someone likes Tiesto (I'm just using him as an example), and spins his style of trance at home, and wants to become big, he can't, really - never like Tiesto. Because Tiesto is unique and he already made that spot for himself. You can't take his spot because it's his. The same story applies for every other DJ - even Oakey. They're unique; they carved their own niche for themselves.

A lot of, if not most of, "wannabe DJ's" today (i.e. bedroom dj's) that want to get "on top" do so because they like one particular style of trance that is already well done by someone else! How can you become as big as Armin if you sound like him? People (especially promoters!) will just say, "well, pff, this guy is just an Armin wannabe." That's not the path to stardom.

It's possible to get "up there", but as I said, you have to be unique. You have to bring your own sound, your own style. That's why I said, "make your own kind of trance, and you might get somewhere."

Take Push/M.I.K.E. for a second. Actually, take Marco V. Marco V has a very, very distinct and unique style. So much so that, upon hearing a track, you don't even need to know the name, you can instantly tell whether or not it's Marco V. His style is simple, and yet so amazing, so effective. He's carved his own niche for himself. Yes, you can probably "remake" (i.e. imitate) most of his tracks in Reason (or similar) within 2 weeks, but that's not the point - the greatest hurdle is the originality - the inspiration.

Take this analogy - it's easy to understand the concept of matter/energy duality, of e=mc^2 - that is, once you're told it. But, think of what kind of a genis was needed in order to arrive at that insight! Those people are rare.

That's why, you can say, anyone can say, "Oh, Marco V's productions are pretty simple - he uses this one drum and bassline and everything is just a variation thereof" - but it works, and you didn't come up with it. He did.

You can't get to the top by imitating Marco V. Likewise, you can't be the next Michael Jordan by imitating his play style. It just can't work. His play style is his own and no one else's - you have to find your own unique style.

Ok, this was long-winded, but I hope I cleared up my original meaning a bit more.

Last edited by Alccode on Jan-13-2003 at 04:18

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originally posted by dJohn No it's not as nearly as hard. I spin too, and I'll admit...if you've got 2 ears and two hands, anybody can be a DJ.

Yes,but can you be a dj that stands out from the zillion of other bedroom djs around?That takes far more than having two ears and two hands.Similarly,as long as you have a voice,anyone can go on a mic and spit words on top of beats.But do they have the flow,diction and timing required to stand out from the other million rappers out there?

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We can...and we do. Some people place them on pedestals to worship, while others trash them and don't think they can do shit. Personally, I stand in the middle...I do admire their talent to read the croud and their refined skill to raise the level of excitement of a performance, but I will always have a tarnish on the dance DJ image, ESPECIALLY European trance DJs, because 75% of their appeal comes from which tracks they play, which doubles for 2 arguments: 1. Which track they play is important...can't open up a night with a banger, and carry it all the way through. Placement and selection is important, and these DJs are masters at that, but... 2. While track placement and selection are important, any anthem can substitute for the climax of a buildup...you can buildup as much, or in this case as short as you want, play an anthem that EVERYBODY knows, and the crowd goes wild...go figure, a Euro trance DJ plays a song and all of a sudden he's better than everybody else.

I agree with you.I think that the whole "god" image of a dj is ridiculous(and I think that even the djs themselves think that,too).Let's face it,it's basically some dude showing up at a club to play some of his favourite records.The point is,that for some ppl,music means so much in their lives,that the djs that give them the music they live for attain this god-like image,since they fulfill the need for one of the things that they love most of all in their lives.It's kinda strange,seeing as all they do is play other ppl's records,but it still happens.And of course the dj's appeal comes from the tracks he/she plays!That is one of the things djing is all about!But if somebody goes on and plays a set consisting of only anthems that everybody knows,he/she won't get far,and sure as hell won't make him/her BETTER than everybody else.And if you replace every build-up or climax in your set with an anthem instead of building it up with several tunes,you won't get far,either.It's those kind of things that seperate the good dj from the bad dj.

I always look for sets where there are a lot of unknown tunes,and the more of them I see in a set,the more I feel like hearing it.
That is partly why I like for example Armin,since he always plays fresh and new tunes on his show.And no,they are not all the same old 99' trance.I would never listen to him if they were(and obviously,you haven't listened to his show either,cos you'd know better than saying what you did about Armin's trackselection).Armin plays a lot of progressive tunes on his show for instance,like Nugen - Deliverance,Castor & Pollux - Serenity,Hybrid - Gravastar etc. etc.His livesets however,have a tendency to be more of an "anthem"-set like you describe it.But that's mostly cos he has played them so much himself on his show that ppl recognize it,not cos it was made popular by the charts or something like that.And what is he going to do if a particular record he likes to play gets so popular cos of him?Stop playing it?

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ANd who are these DJs that determine whether a track is worthy or not? Each track that's good enough to make it onto a label to be pressed is good in it's own way.

Lasgo,Ian van Dahl and Flip & Fill have all gotten onto a label and releqsed records.That still doesn't make the music good in my eyes.Other ppl,however,do think so,and hence,they get a record deal.So just cos PvD does not play a tune does not automatically make it bad.But it is not good enough FOR HIM PERSONALLY,and hence,he won't play it.There's a difference.Of course,there is the problem of ppl taking PvD's taste as an automatic quality factor,which is dumb.

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Trance DJs tend to look for formulaic sounds, and familiar effects to compliment their box full of anthems...disagree? Tell me the barebone structure for EACH AND EVERY track of AvB's recent sets, and you'll know what I mean...roughly 6-7 minutes in length, 2 buildups, and that familiar Eurotrance hoover sound.

This is not entirely true.Once again,listen to Armin's show.He plays a lot of tunes from other genres there,like I mentioned above.And not all the trance tunes he plays has that "hoover"-sound you describe, either.And yes,they look for formulaic sounds,but not ONLY formulaic sounds.Contrary to your belief,Armin's box isn't stuffed full of anthems.For the 3rd time,LISTEN TO HIS SHOW,or look at some tracklistings of his shows or something.It'll show what kind of tunes Armin can pull out.Of course,seeing as he is a trance dj,he'll play a lot of tunes that have the characteristics you described.But,he'll play a lot that do not have them as well.I think you're having trouble with trance generally,rather than having an issue with the djs.

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

I am really pleased to see so many intelligible comments and insights. One of the things I love about these forums is that people here are well-versed. Comming back to topic, I guess it is established that "DJ is God" (well some) and nothing we can do about that.

By the way, I don't believe that there's such a thing as "Tiesto" sound or "Armin" sound or "Ferry" sound - these guys are pretty diverse. Take PvD for example - look at him in days of Twilo, look at him today. It seems that the trend and natural progression of a dj is to go "deeper". I see quite a few DJs "evolving"... the ones that don't - face extinction. So, their "sound" changes, as the music changes. You may recognize Armin's track - his beat line or you can hear Ferry Corsten's track - with it's amazing classical-music-like structure but I doubt you can say that about their spinning style.

So, what I found out from this discussion is that I should probably dissolve my studio - sell all my gear, synths, software, records, cds, turntables etc... coz I'll never get to the level of Armin/Ferry/PvD/Tiesto or whoever is hot.... Hummm....

Anyone knows where I can find a nice sturdy tree branch and willing to trade nice solid rope for all of my gear?????????

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