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| quote: | Originally posted by JohnSmith
I was not trying to make this seem onesided, merely stating a link to a news story i read. in fact, what i said is this has to stop, and it must, on BOTH sides. I agree, palestinians are killing israelis as well and both sides are wrong and need to make amends. |
You seem to be so idealisitcally blind. Wait wait, thats not a good way to start.. lets try starting on a positive note;
You have very good and hopeful views, if it were not for one thing. Nations, like people are not perfect, nor will they ever be. Therefore the actions that they take will never be perfect, nor can be held up against perfect ideals and equal critized for unequal violations. You have to understand that, just as nothing you can do will ever be perfect, nothing such as this situation will ever be perfect as well. But there still is a strong difference from you doing something good, excellent, ok, and you doing something bad.
Israel, an imperfect country, as it is not heaven or utopia, as neither any other place I know on this earth claims to be, is confronting the current crisis in the best possible manner it knows how, or in another term, in the least imperfect way possible. If you do not understand this, then I can not explain my notion further to you, and I believe either more time and experience will need to be gained by you individually throughout your life to come to this realization. Some people, however, live their lives in blind idealism and never come to embrace the true life that we live. I hope this not be the case with you.
Now if you do understand the notion, then you should understand it in the context. What you are holding Israel up to is a perfect ideal - you are comparing heaven to Israel, and then saying, "Look Israel, you should become heaven". But this will never be, humans are imperfect creatures, and their creations - such as governments - will therefore be inherintly imperfect as well.
What you can try to say, is "Look Israel, you might want to do this a bit better, as I think it is possible and in your betterment to achieve the quest prefectionism". What I mean is you can say "You are doing this thing bad". But then you would have to put it in the context of saying "But this is how you can make it better". Without the context, you are comparing it to heaven, not to reality.
| quote: | | I found it especially amusing though, how you accues me of being one sided, for posting a link from CBC, and then post one yourself from the israeli defence force. |
He was acusing you of being one sided from your critique and comments, not from the trivial news sources. I find both the CBC report, and the IDF report trivial, and hard to deny from my position.
| quote: | | to reiterate, BOTH sides are wrong, is that clear now? sorry if my posting one article made it seem like i was for or against either side. |
Yes, fair, both sides are wrong - both sides are imperfect, I agree. Though I felt that you implied that both sides are EQUALLY wrong, and with this I have to disagree. Before I begin my speel, though, let me know if you think this is the case, otherwise I won't waste my breath.
| quote: | I am interested to hear your, and everyones answers to these 2 questions. personally, i think that neither would stop if the other did, there is to much hatred and bad blood there for forgiveness to come i fear.  |
Look you have to understand form a realist view that the instinctual responses in your head (or your not rational) that you deny are indeed true. And I will explain this form a purely rational humanistic view.
If Israel would stop killing Palestinians, would the Palestinians stop?
No! But why? Well they would not stop because they have not achieved what they claim they're objective is. Regardless, they are incontent with the current (or old) "status quo" and therefore are killing Israelis. Believeing that Israel will end hostilites, and reverting back to the old "status quo" will solve this problem is the main irrational inconsistancy here that leads you to instincitly answer, "no the palestinians will not stop killing Israelis".
If the Palestinians stop killing Israelis, would Israel stop?
Yes! But why? Well simple, Israel wants the old "status quo". They are comfortable being in a stable secure environment. They subscribe to a live and let live policy. I live next door to you, you live next door to me. The old "status quo" worked for Israelis. They simply want a peaceful solution, not a political one. Therefore it is rational to believe, Israel pertianing to a live and let live policy, that Yes, Israel will not kill Palestinians if they do not kill Israelis (and thereby threaten Israel). This rational is why your instinicts echo "yes".
I hope this summarized my view, and enlightened a few of your points.
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