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Originally posted by Yoepus they are keepign it secret and out of focus because they don't want people like you bitching and moaning about it. There is nothing wrong with Israel's nuclear program - inversly had it not had this nuclear program it might already have been destroyed, or more people on both sides, and arabs in particular would have died in failed attempts to re-invade Israel. So it saves lives, ya . . . . oh and you should obviously consider renaming the thread, perhaps something like "An Israeli I consider a Hero", as it is without doubt that Israelis do not consider him a hero, and therefore he is not an Israeli Hero in such context, after all you do want the appearance of correctness.

obviously he believes he's the smartest guy in the world and has no idea how ignorant he is

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Originally posted by Yoepus they are keepign it secret and out of focus because they don't want people like you bitching and moaning about it. There is nothing wrong with Israel's nuclear program - inversly had it not had this nuclear program it might already have been destroyed, or more people on both sides, and arabs in particular would have died in failed attempts to re-invade Israel. So it saves lives, ya . . . . oh and you should obviously consider renaming the thread, perhaps something like "An Israeli I consider a Hero", as it is without doubt that Israelis do not consider him a hero, and therefore he is not an Israeli Hero in such context, after all you do want the appearance of correctness.

Why does there have to be a majority agreement by the Israeli population for him to be consideed a hero.. No matter where he was from or how old he was... i still consider what he did as right and brave. I cant believe the bullshit you just spewed out of your mouth trying to justify this "hidden" truth. The only reason youre defending this is becuase youre Jewish and cant stand the fact that the Israeli government did something wrong.
The world must know about this man and get him freed from the clutches of those Barbaric zionist oppressors...that government disgusts me just as the Us government does..mmmm i wonder why they seem to get along so well

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

Because they seem to hate the same dirty fucks that you seem to support!

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Originally posted by melech_mike Because they seem to hate the same dirty fucks that you seem to support!

I guess the whole world is a bunch of "dirty fucks" to you!

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

I have mentioned Mr Vanunu before. A real hero in the truest sense of the word. In fact he will be seen as a true patriot.

People of principle are so few and far between. In this world conformity and obedience matter far more than principle and conscience. No matter what the country.

And to all you Jews who condemn this man for acting for the good of mankind not some narrow pathetic national interest. Shame on You.

By your fucked up logic Colonel Stauffenberg and the plotters who tried to kill Hitler are criminals rather than heroes because they disobeyed orders and tried to kill their commander in chief. And conversely some Waffen SS officer who died for the Third Reich is a hero because he is a fanatical 'my country right or wrong' kind of guy.

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Israeli Heros are Menachem Begin, David Ben Gurion, Eli Cohen, Ron Arad, Ilan Ramon, Yoni Netanyahu, Moshe Dayan.. R..a.. I ehm..donno bout the last one.

All the politicians you mention if they had been Germans living in Nazi Germany they would have been in the Nazi Party or the SS. There not heroes, there cynical opportunistic politicians. Menachem Begin a hero. I laugh with disgust. If hes a hero then so is Sheik Yassin.
Menachem Begin was a wanted terrorist. His organisation was responsible for the murder of British soldiers and the Deir Yassin massacre.

If he really is a hero, then you should have a cold long hard look in the fucking mirror and see what sort of person you really are.

If Mordechai Vanunu was living in Nazi Germany and he was a gentile not a Jew he would have a tree planted in his honour outside your Holocaust museum. He would have helped Jews from persecution. Because that is what men of principle do they help others without thought of the consequences.

All people are the same Jews, Arabs, Germans whatever. The only difference is the setting. Give a group the opportunity and the motive they will be capable of persecution and murder. Germans, Turks, Israelis.

Put a ethnic group in a position of vulnerability they will be persecuted. Jews, Gypsies, Armenians, Palestinians.

It seems humans are never going to get over tired old race based nationalism. Patriotism by the conservatives understanding of the word is doing what you are told, obeying orders without question even if the objectives are morally repugnant.

If Israel had a 100 people like Mordechai Vanunu then there wouldnt be any Arab-Israeli conflict.

I could respect him for trying to stand up for his principles if only his methodology made sense.

Suppose Israel was trying to build a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons. If Vanunu knew this, and chose to disclose it, which of the following results is logical:

1. Israel decides to halt nuclear weapons production and signs a peace agreement with the Palestinians and neighboring Arab states.

OR

2. He gets his ass thrown in jail, rival nations accelerate their attempts at WOMD production, and Israel in response to an increased threat from their enemies as a result of the disclosure decides to produce even MORE weapons.

Obviously, scenario 2 is far more realistic. Vanunu obviously didn't think his decision through to its logical conclusion before he decided to act. He might have had the best of intentions, but you don't become a hero by acting like an idiot.

Cheers,

Arbiter

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Originally posted by Arbiter I could respect him for trying to stand up for his principles if only his methodology made sense. Suppose Israel was trying to build a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons. If Vanunu knew this, and chose to disclose it, which of the following results is logical: 1. Israel decides to halt nuclear weapons production and signs a peace agreement with the Palestinians and neighboring Arab states. OR 2. He gets his ass thrown in jail, rival nations accelerate their attempts at WOMD production, and Israel in response to an increased threat from their enemies as a result of the disclosure decides to produce even MORE weapons. Obviously, scenario 2 is far more realistic. Vanunu obviously didn't think his decision through to its logical conclusion before he decided to act. He might have had the best of intentions, but you don't become a hero by acting like an idiot. Cheers, Arbiter

You dont know what was going through Vananu's mind....do youthink he actually blew the whistle for the detriment of mankind?

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Why does there have to be a majority agreement by the Israeli population for him to be consideed a hero.. No matter where he was from or how old he was... i still consider what he did as right and brave.

This will not necessarilly relate to this specific thread's topic but,

Do you think anyone commiting a brave act is a hero? I mean, by [your] definition, is a hero a brave man or is he a brave man fighting for a good cause ("Good" - a very, very subjective term).

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Check My Music

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Originally posted by oDrori This will not necessarilly relate to this specific thread's topic but, Do you think anyone commiting a brave act is a hero? I mean, by [your] definition, is a hero a brave man or is he a brave man fighting for a good cause ("Good" - a very, very subjective term).

Well if you are going to scrutinize every word i use in my sentences when everyone here knows i think Vananu did a brave thing for a good cause... then i will be mucch more specific this time when addressing something like this.

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Well if you are going to scrutinize every word i use in my sentences when everyone here knows i think Vananu did a brave thing for a good cause... then i will be mucch more specific this time when addressing something like this.

This time.... or did you mean to say next time?

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

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Originally posted by melech_mike This time.... or did you mean to say next time?

Yes melek .... i meant next time.

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by Cyrus King You dont know what was going through Vananu's mind....do youthink he actually blew the whistle for the detriment of mankind?

Oh, I'm sure his intentions were good. But if he would have really thought about it, I just don't see how he could have concluded that blowing the whistle would have produced the results he really wanted.