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Originally posted by melech_mike May g-d bless the brave countries who send they're men and women to fight for the good of mankind. to fight for freedom and democracy. May the Armies of the United States, United Kingdom, Israel, Austrailia and every other coutry who has done the right thing sending in their troops to disarm a man who in just a couple of years will be able to black-mail the world with his WMD! Can you only imagine a world that is under the contol of a cruel tyrant like the one in power right now in Iraq? heh...what a fucked up world!

Sigh... yes, let us hope that God will bless them, because many of them will end up dead.

If your being sarcastic.... well, its 1:30 in the morning and im sorry if I didnt pick up on it. But your in the same mindset as all the CNN brainwashed, bandwagon patriot soccer moms with I HEART AMERICA bumper stickers on their SUV's.

Why people so eager to start a war? Since when is it ever worth our time to go kill each other? Theres no reason right now to go in and fight Saddam (oops, forgot about oil! but for the sake of conversation, lets pretend that doesnt exist right now). WMD? Please. Saddam wont use them against us. He may be an asshole, but hes not stupid. He knows that if iraq so much as throws a stone at us we will swoop in and crush his ass without hesitation. Right now we are taking the correct course of action, which is UN inspections, which have yeilded few finds, and satellite/spy plane survielance. Even the U.S. admits they've found no smoking gun. I think the inspections should continue indefinately, maybe once every half a year/year or so. It would be tough to near impossable to hide a significant WMD program. What could Saddam possibly get up and running in such short notice to threaten anyone? And how could he keep it secret from the surveilance? Even if he could, what could he do with it? Like I said above, he knows we will kick his ass if he trys anything. Hes not interested in pulling a jihad or something, he just wants to stay in power. He's never shown any sign of aggression until we threatened him.

While I do agree that actions towards his people are dispicable and need to come to an end, its funny how everyone is so upset about how nasty Saddam is, and thats all they think about. You never hear anyone worrying about the Chineese, or shedding a tear for the many thousands (or was it millions?) killed in genocides in those African countries (whos names I cant remember, pronounce, or spell ). Or what about the thousands of people who die daily from starvation? Wouldnt the billions that a war would cost (that we cant really afford anyways) be better spent to try and help them?

Anyways, my general mindset is this: all of you pro war people, aged 18-26, go sign up ASAP for any branch of the armed services and go help your country. Or all of you with family members of the same age, think about how you would feel to send one of them off to fight, and having them come back home in a box. Until you do these things, your just hypocrits.

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NEW MIX [Feb/March 2008]

Last edited by nrjizer on Feb-25-2003 at 06:51

Sorry i dont fit that profile.
I am one of the biggest anti-CNN advocates i know! so thats out...
Soccer mom -- hardly!
But i would wear an 'I *heart* America' T-shirt!! Where can i get me one of those?

War should always be a last resort to solving problems. Unfortunatly, if we wait around much longer, Saddam while have an active nuclear, biological, and chemical arsenale. He may not use them right away, but he could bride the world with them!

He is a man who hasn't earned the privliages of having such deadly weapons in his posession.
People do stupid things when they are in desperate situations... if he feel threatend whatso ever, he will NOT hesitate what-so-ever to use these weapons. He thinks that if he's going down, he'll take everyone down with him. He unleached these weapons on his own people to the north. But thats not a sign of aggression huh!

You need to wake out of your nice little naive bubble. i know its comfy in it, but its not reality.

Its frieghtening and truly sad that we must go to war, or that war is still part of our civilitazion. but as long as people like this are in power, the world will never be at rest with itself, and the safety and security of our entire existence would be put on the line. Our lives would be in his hands, and we've seen what those hands have done to his nearest and dearest. You got to ask yourself...Is this man really that worth it?

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Anyways, my general mindset is this: all of you pro war people, aged 18-26, go sign up ASAP for any branch of the armed services and go help your country. Or all of you with family members of the same age, think about how you would feel to send one of them off to fight, and having them come back home in a box. Until you do these things, your just hypocrits.

Nice, guess i'm excluded from your difinition of the 'hipocrits'!
I'm 22 and have served a limited amount of time in the army. I have seen one of my family members come back in a box, defending my country with pride from the same enimies that seek to destroy Israel even today. This was 21 years ago. I have many friends who are in the army now, and know many more who have been through it. When something so important to your existence (such as your homeland -- a place where every Jew can identify with one another without the fear of being attacked by anti-semites), is being jepordized(sp?), you would jump at the oppratunity to defend it with everything you got, including your life! These men and women (who were just childred when they died - aged 18-26) who fought for the freedom, liberty, democracy and security of future generations, are truly our heros! May they rest in peace.

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

Last edited by melech_mike on Feb-25-2003 at 07:46

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if we wait around much longer, Saddam while have an active nuclear, biological, and chemical arsenale.

I'm not suggesting we sit and wait around for him to obtain a serious arsenal. Right now we are following a correct plan of action, thats weapons inspections and surveilence. As of right now, there is no immediate reason to start a full scale war that will cost many thousands of lives. Unless you can tell me something I dont know.

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People do stupid things when they are in desperate situations... if he feel threatend whatso ever, he will NOT hesitate what-so-ever to use these weapons. He thinks that if he's going down, he'll take everyone down with him. He unleached these weapons on his own people to the north. But thats not a sign of aggression huh!

That was one of my points in my previous post. He has no reason to use them against us unless we corner him. What he has done to his own people is a disgrace, but I dont see how it is the job of the U.S. and everyone else to police the actions of other nations all the time. Besides, like I mentioned, the U.S. or the U.N. dont seem to give a rats ass about genocides in Africa, or China or North korea, or even starving people in poverty. No, the only thing worth our time is a country that is of a minimal threat and whos price of gas is cheaper than water. And he wont "take everyone with him." You make it sound like he has a complete collection of ICBM's hiding under the desert or something. Serious WMD, the ballistic kind like your average nuclear missle require silos/mobile launching pads; not easy things to hide. Anything he could hide from the inspectors wouldnt do a whole lot; at least compaired to what we would send back at him.

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but as long as people like this are in power, the world will never be at rest with itself, and the safety and security of our entire existence would be put on the line. Our lives would be in his hands, and we've seen what those hands have done to his nearest and dearest. You got to ask yourself...Is this man really that worth it?

In my opinion, no. Im not living in a naive bubble of comfort: I know that theres I could get blown away in the next big terroist attack or something. Ive heard about all this duct tape on the doors shit like everyone else. But im not worried about it. Life is a very fragile and precious thing, it could end at any moment - but by terrorist or iraqi attack is way way down on the list of potential causes of death, down there with things like crushed by falling refridgerator or meteor or something. Life is too precious to go and fight a silly war over. Besides, attacking iraq would do more harm than leaving him be anyways. It will spark more aggression by both Saddam and rogue terrorists.

Anyways, here are the facts right now as I know them:

-We have inspectors, we have satellite surveilance and spy planes. We have found no smoking guns. Some suspicious evidence, but not nearly enough to justify a full scale war. And not enough to win support of nearly everyone minus britian and (maybe) austrailia. You'd think if there was a serious threat that we would have the whole world behind us.

-Saddam has already said he will not throw the first punch, and that if the U.S. does make the first move that he will fight back with all his might, not just at our soldiers, but at civillians here in the U.S. It seems that in this case, attacking would do more harm than good. Like a wild animal in nature, just leave it alone and it will likely leave you alone too. Or prehaps, say you had reason to believe that a man you knew would break into your house friday night and kill you in your sleep. If you went out friday afternoon and killed him first, you would be thrown in jail. But if you kept your gaurd up friday night and killed him as he attacked you, you wouldnt. Note that this analogy supports vigilantism, the proper thing to do would be to call the cops, but for the sake of argument lets just forget about that

-No one could be bothered about North Korea, China, ect. We KNOW that North Korea and China have nukes. Arent you worried more about them than Iraq? But then again, North Korea and China dont have gasoline thats cheaper than water...

But whatever. I respect that you've done military service to defend what you beleive in. I refer to the hypocrits as all the bandwagon patriots who only found it worth their trouble to fly american flags everywhere AFTER 9/11, and who support starting a war, but wont actually contribute to it. For the record, Im willing to put my balls on the line that I might go down in a suicide bombing or something than risk a war that will kill thousands of soldiers, civillians, and send the economy even further down the drain.

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NEW MIX [Feb/March 2008]

nrjizer said:

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WMD? Please. Saddam wont use them against us. He may be an asshole, but hes not stupid. He knows that if iraq so much as throws a stone at us we will swoop in and crush his ass without hesitation.

this is a blindly ignorant statement.

Had Israel (G-d praise their valor as in the past and may it continue in the future!) not bombed the iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981 ( ilan ramon was on the team, may he rest in peace as a hero who saved many american lives and jewish israeli lives too of course!) then when Iraq invaded Kuwait to take control on the oil resources and america tried to stop them... yah you guessed it. KABOOM bye bye american resources in the middle east, and soon to follow Israel, and soon to follow anyone who stands in his way.

Look we live in a world where people out there don't think like you and me, about how we can make enough money to buy this car, and go to this party, and od this and this... there are those that just want to kill anyone not like them, who want to torture those that do not submit themselves to their way of life. I don't need to say anymore about who i'm talking about... but we live in a world, where esspecially right now, war is critical for the sustaining of YOUR democractic free life. Because outsiders want to destroy it.

You know why? In a sum-up, because most of the arab world is pretty new, less then 100 years old gov't wise. So basically we have all these dictators. Well they want power, and the idea of democracy is THE BIGGEST threat to their ruling of these countries. So basically, they won't stop at diplomacy when dealing with their power hungry motives. They want to remain in power in their countries, being rich, and keeping it within the family, and they will attack america to keep their mostly ignorant and sheltered peoples from learning the truth, but as you see in Iran now, the democratic arabs are rising!! AND G-D WILLING THEY WILL WIN!! And soon we will have a totally free democratic middle east!! I almost tear waiting for it!!

Jews and arabs living together and trading like in the ancient times. Free of dicatators...

This is the true goal I feel of the current terrorism campaign. Atleast it is what should be the true goal....

Iraq I hope is just the beginning.

Iran was doing amazing until the fanatical current gov't came into power. Look what it has done to the country? We need the return of democratic to those places that lost it. One madman as a ruler of any nation wields too much power to be just. They must all be stomped and replaced by democracy!!!

SHLOMO ELIYAHU BARON

aaaah this shit is so pointless. its like black and white. and all the liberal, tree-hugging, socialist, democrat, hippie, activist anti-war movement freaks argue with these totally off the wall statements. hell, i'll blend in and use one myself here --> why dont you all just get the fuck up and move over to afganistan, iraq or palestine . you all might as well be terrorists.

shame on the americans in these boards that talk shit about the USA. move to sweden or canada or something, you'll probably fit into their social(ist) or communist system much more better than you do here in the USA.

i really hope this forum gets closed...hell suspend my account permanently if you want

lots of love

>JM<

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Originally posted by JM aaaah this shit is so pointless. its like black and white. and all the liberal, tree-hugging, socialist, democrat, hippie, activist anti-war movement freaks argue with these totally off the wall statements. hell, i'll blend in and use one myself here --> why dont you all just get the fuck up and move over to afganistan, iraq or palestine . you all might as well be terrorists. shame on the americans in these boards that talk shit about the USA. move to sweden or canada or something, you'll probably fit into their social(ist) or communist system much more better than you do here in the USA. i really hope this forum gets closed...hell suspend my account permanently if you want lots of love >JM<

Dude.. that was so ignorant. Dont talk Bush like now... I know you love him and everything, but dont let your moral personality get mixed with it. If you are so american.. why do you have SOME OTHER FLAG ?

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

I love my country. If there was a worthy cause, I would die for the USA. President Bush and his agenda, however, are a disgrace to us all. That isn't just MY oppinion, that's the general oppinion of the rest of the world. So far you've presented no valid arguement to make me believe I should think otherwise, besides ignorantly insulting lots and lots of people.

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Originally posted by Christopher B I love my country. If there was a worthy cause, I would die for the USA. President Bush and his agenda, however, are a disgrace to us all. That isn't just MY oppinion, that's the general oppinion of the rest of the world. So far you've presented no valid arguement to make me believe I should think otherwise, besides ignorantly insulting lots and lots of people.

Read some of the comments I've posted and dispute how they present no valid argument why the US should follow a policy of disarmament. I think it's pretty clear that I love my country, but there's no way in hell that I follow what the government tells me blindly. I'll agree with you on one thing ... if Bush's agenda is war then it is a disgrace to us all. However, if his agenda is disarmament and full compliance as outlined by the truce following the gulf war then I'm all for it. EVEN if it eventually leads up to war as a factor in forcing that compliance.

Also JM ... COOL IT. If you don't want to participate in these forums then just don't visit. Otherwise dont post inciteful crap that will ruin it for the rest of us.

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Originally posted by LiquidX that was so ignorant.

like i said in my post, "i'll blend in"

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Dont talk Bush like now...

uhhhhh-oh

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If you are so american.. why do you have SOME OTHER FLAG ?

the flag has nothing to do with anything....that "SOME OTHER FLAG" is a flag of a country where i was born and raised before i was given the opportunity to come to the united states - the land of opportunity.

if you had been careful to notice though, every few months or so, the flag does change to the american flag

>JM<

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Originally posted by JM aaaah this shit is so pointless. its like black and white. and all the liberal, tree-hugging, socialist, democrat, hippie, activist anti-war movement freaks argue with these totally off the wall statements. hell, i'll blend in and use one myself here --> why dont you all just get the fuck up and move over to afganistan, iraq or palestine . you all might as well be terrorists. shame on the americans in these boards that talk shit about the USA. move to sweden or canada or something, you'll probably fit into their social(ist) or communist system much more better than you do here in the USA. i really hope this forum gets closed...hell suspend my account permanently if you want lots of love >JM<

Shame on americans who "talk shit about the USA" ?
I'm an american and I love my country. Thats why I "talk shit about it." Without pointing out the multitude of wrongs in our society and the fact that Bush is horrible for this country (and the world), nothing would ever get better. (I'm not saying my little pointless comments are going to change anything, but if people in general don't speak out and challenge whats being done nothing will ever change and things won't get better). Hell speaking up and complaining about shit is what makes america a democracy which gives us our freedom we so highly prize.

While most Americans do support war, acquiescence is usually predicated on some sort of multilateral coalition--and not an ad-hoc patchwork of the U.S and its reflexive supporters.

Like the earlier posters noted, I, too, find something profoundly disturbing about a "pro-war rally;" war, even when necessary, is not something that people should be happy and and eager to enter into.

At its worst, war is a fundamentally destructive and irrational act; at its best, it's a necessary evil that should be somberly entered into.

Mindless cheerleading degrades combatants (and civilians, in some cases...) on both sides of the battle.