- Yeah sorry about that EXCITED mode hehehe.. thing is, people are just too closed minded.

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant Okay Iron, I assume u read it? France just proclaimed it'll veto any resolution proposed by the US and Britain. I think Chriac definitely went too far with that. Apparently he's not aware of the disastrous consequences such a behaviour will cause. Boys and girls, what we are currently witnessing is a hitorical change of today's world order! I really thought this opposition to the US position was a temporary ego-boost(France, the new European "boss") or avertion from domestic problems(Germany..) but as it seems to me now, those countries along with China and Russia USE this very crisis to change the uniliteral world order that's been established since the 1989 collapse of the Sovjets. This is NOT about morale or economy, it's a cynical DANGEROUS game that is played behind the mask of the current Iraqi debate. To be honest I'm pretty worried about that. Give me the USA as the world police any day.

Yeah, let me give some insight into what I was thinking.

The way I saw it at the time was that only France was going to veto (they were the only one who had declared explicitly their non-support of the ultimatim) so basically they wouldn't have the balls to do it and would just abstain.

However, with Russia now set to veto (and China probably getting the cojones to as well) it looks like there will be a veto after all.

I do, however, believe that the U.S will bludgeon up 9 votes and go into war with that "moral authority".

And of course Russia, France, China, Pakistan, Syria, Germany, others aren't doing this for any altrusitic purpose, of course their going for their own national interests.

Personally, while I remain firmly behind the idea of regime change, I am diametrically opposed to this sort of power politic manipulation (immenent threat my fucking ass, if there was one I would expect Bush to shout from the high mountain tops as we rightly reigned down upon Saddam, so you can all stop that bullshit) which all the new hawks (Richard "yes Sy Hersh is the real Osama" Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Condi Rice, Rummy, etc.) are all going to disgustingly get away with.

- This is getting more interesting. Now IRAN is said to have a Nuklear program.. mmmmMMMMmmmMMMMmmmMMMmmm..

And the US decided to DELAY the deadline because of lack of support.

Just news.

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by IronDragon I bet that's making you loads of friends in Sweden.

why would you assume such a thing? sweden has maintained as much neutrality from all conflict sanctioning bodies as long as possible. beyond that ive seen discussion in their news papers on the same subject...

and finally- htf would my position on that one topic have anything todo with my ability to make 'friends'. if anything at least im leaving the US (unlike a terrifyingly large amount of people) and meeting others. then they can see that Americans arent just Bush zombies bent on world destruction.

in the realm of politics, Swedens neutrality has made it a fence sitter on this issue. they would support if the UN would, but their vote isnt a necessary one for the war resolution|

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'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

At this moment a new resolution with a deadline would not pass. And thats a good thing.

On the other hand, as bad this bush guy is doing as bad is Chiraq doing. they act similary bad, only on different sides. I give Bush and the US credit that they have forced the inspections, thats a good sign. but under those inspections and the worldwide eye on Iraq, this country cant most likely develop new WMD, so why not wait until Saddam lose his calm and throw blix and co out of his country. Then you will have plenty of support to go into a war. Why rush the war when there is no immediate danger as soon as the inspectors are in Iraq? Why not wait until SH makes a mistake or new heavy proof come out?

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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness - only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate - only love can do that... The chain reaction of evil--hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

I think u missed the most important change in world politics: 9/11. We should learn from history, prevent future mistakes. Now what did this teach us? That by waiting NOTHING can be accomplished. Waiting for Terrorists is digging your own grave, Re-acting is deadly.
That's how I see it.

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant I think u missed the most important change in world politics: 9/11. We should learn from history, prevent future mistakes. Now what did this teach us? That by waiting NOTHING can be accomplished. Waiting for Terrorists is digging your own grave, Re-acting is deadly. That's how I see it.

Maybe appeasement will work this time right?

yeah anywayz so wtf r we all saying here if the U.S is too good to wait for anyones permission ppl.....if i understand correctly no one should have destruction weapons except the U.S and allies becoz they r trustworthy ppl(trustworthy ppl who will dig every hole they can in the whole earth to find weapons ...in my opinion too paranoid) and also so that when they rage a war against ppl with much lower teknology they would have a massive advantage. IF THE U.S IS OUR POLICE THEN FUCK WORLD ORDER AND KILL DA POOOOOOOOOLICE and ya one question so what if the power is slipping from underneath the states or the whole world is opposing the states...doesnt this ring a bell that maybe The U.S Intelligence isnt quite intelligent..i def. hope France takes over

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blehhhhh

quote:

Originally posted by bouzo yeah anywayz so wtf r we all saying here if the U.S is too good to wait for anyones permission ppl.....if i understand correctly no one should have destruction weapons except the U.S and allies becoz they r trustworthy ppl(trustworthy ppl who will dig every hole they can in the whole earth to find weapons ...in my opinion too paranoid) and also so that when they rage a war against ppl with much lower teknology they would have a massive advantage. IF THE U.S IS OUR POLICE THEN FUCK WORLD ORDER AND KILL DA POOOOOOOOOLICE and ya one question so what if the power is slipping from underneath the states or the whole world is opposing the states...doesnt this ring a bell that maybe The U.S Intelligence isnt quite intelligent..i def. hope France takes over

so...who is going to step up and do something? im from the states, and i dont want to see a war on US soil, but all i see around the world are protests where nothing gets accomplished, and Russia and France waving vetos.

veto doesnt mean no war, it means no UN war - so the responsibility is squarely on the US/UK. the thing is, not ONE country will help defend Iraq - they will only protest. that has some obvious reasons...ie Saddam kills his own people and is planning to destroy his own country and get himself killed if the US invades.

sounds like a solid plan. Bush said that there would be no war if Hussein left and went into exile - why is that so much to ask? its not like the world *loves* Saddam|

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'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

quote:

Originally posted by cweb At this moment a new resolution with a deadline would not pass. And thats a good thing. On the other hand, as bad this bush guy is doing as bad is Chiraq doing. they act similary bad, only on different sides. I give Bush and the US credit that they have forced the inspections, thats a good sign. but under those inspections and the worldwide eye on Iraq, this country cant most likely develop new WMD, so why not wait until Saddam lose his calm and throw blix and co out of his country. Then you will have plenty of support to go into a war. Why rush the war when there is no immediate danger as soon as the inspectors are in Iraq? Why not wait until SH makes a mistake or new heavy proof come out?

one reason they are rushing to war is that the US doesn't want to engage in what could be a prolonged conflict in the intense Arabian summer heat

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant I think u missed the most important change in world politics: 9/11. We should learn from history, prevent future mistakes. Now what did this teach us? That by waiting NOTHING can be accomplished. Waiting for Terrorists is digging your own grave, Re-acting is deadly. That's how I see it.

I agree with you that the West, in particular the States, should learn from history to prevent future mistakes. I just don't think that they are doing precisely that, and if they indeed are, then I don't agree that the path they are taking is the one that will best serve American interests, and definately not the world's own.

I would argue that the US is taking reactionary measures in its course of action post-9/11. I say this because in my view all the US is basically following the same path of foreign policy it has followed all along; the big change that 9/11 effected was that it gave the US some justification to be more aggressive in this course of dealings in world affairs. This American foreign policy doctrine, now explicitly propounded by Bush but in practice spans back several Presidential generations, in its current manifestation draws as its base a manifesto drawn up in 1997 called "Project for the New American Century," whose main backer in the administration is the uber-hawk and rampant neo-conservative Paul Wolfowitz. Here's a link to the official website:

www.newamericancentury.org (read the "Statement of Principles")

I just don't think that courses of action following this doctrine will successfully counter-attack and put down terrorism; if it does, I still think the cost will GREATLY outweigh the means.

All of the West, I would say, has to take a long hard look at itself before it can really begin to deliberate what courses of action to follow. I mean, to really look at and try to answer the question "Why do they hate us so much?" I just don't see this kind of questioning happening.

My view is that the bubble which encapsulated the common American for the last 10-15 years has burst (sorry for the cliche ); well at least it has for me. But I think that the American viewpoint is delusional in this respect; we incessantly cling to our "way of life," when it is precisely this way of life that will lead to our downfall. In the history of the world, any lifestyle at the top of the pyramid is dependent on the exploitation of other people. We need to look at the things we value in the West, and see the cost it burdens the rest of the world for us to keep on living this "American Dream."