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Originally posted by djSlain i was just wondering (all this came from public schools in california ) When u are in a boat going 10 mph, and the river is moving with u at 20 mph, then you should be going 30 mph. If light is traveling at C speed, can't u just blow (with breath) into a a beam of light or something and make it go C+N (n is the mph of your blow) MPH? light going faster then the speed of light...... ?

Your assumption is wrong because the boat example is flawed. If the speedometer of the boat reads 10 mph, then the boat is travelling at 10 mph no matter what the velocity of the river current. It's the same as for a car. The speedometer says 50 mph even though the Earth is rotating much faster than that. To accelerate the beam of light, your breath would have to travel faster than the beam.

First of all, just a little clarification, you would have to travel faster than light to go into the past. But the problem is that to reach the speed of light you need an infinite amount of energy, so you can never gain that speed. You can bend space using warp fields so that from the outside it seems like you're traveling faster than light, but on local scale you're still going slower than light and are unable to travel into the past. Traveling faster than light, however, doesn't requre infinite amounts of energy, but to travel faster than light you'd first need to break through the light barrier, which now seems impossible. Although, while faster than light travel doesn't require infinite amount of energy, it brings complex numbers into the equation. So you start travelling backwards through time, but not through our time, rather through a different time perpendicular to ours (dt=dt0/sqrt(1-b^2)), b=v/c. If v>0, b^2>1, dt=dt0/sqrt(negative number), dt=dt0/i*k (k is an irrelevant constant number), dt=dt0*(-i)=-dt0*i.

Now, about the boat, when you're moving 10mph, and river is moving 20mph, you are moving 30mph relative to the earth. But, that only works for low speeds. As you get near the speed of light, speeds don't add up linearly anymore, and c+c does not equal 2c, instead, c+c=c (c=speed of light). So if one object is moving away from you towards the east at the speed of light, and another one is moving away towards west at the same speed, although it looks like to you that they're moving away from each other at twice the speed of light, each one sees both you and the other object moving away from it at the speed of light. That's because time flows differently on all 3 systems. Sounds crazy but it's true.

I'm in sort of a hurry now, but if you want, I could explain both things in detail.

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1+1=10

Drug Tito..interestng point you mentioned in the first paragraph. Also...there are something in the theoretical world called Worm holes I did a paper regarding time travelling..so I got some time to type this whole blurb on it about wormholes.
A Schwarzschild Worm Hole(or Worm Hole for short) is a geometry of four dimensional space-time( 3 dimensions of space and the 4th dimension time) in which two regions of the Universe are connected by a short narrow throat. This event was discovered when Karl Schwarzschild determined a geometrical relationship of empty space surrounding any spherical mass with respect to space-time within a few weeks after Albert Einstein published his paper on The Theory of General Relativity. The Schwarzschild metric equation that describes this is
ds2 = - ( 1 - rs / r ) dt2 + ( 1 - rs / r )-1 dr2 + r2 do2
The quantity ds denotes the invariant spacetime interval, an absolute measure of the distance between two events in space and time, t is a `universal' time coordinate, r is the circumferential radius, defined so that the circumference of a sphere at radius r is 2 pi r, and do is an interval of spherical solid angle. But under certain circumstances, the Schwarzschild metric can yield to a negative square root as well as a positive one, showing that an imaginary representation of the geometric relationship. This gave birth to the concept of a wormhole. A classical large scale wormhole is a solution to Einstein's field equations, which governs the curvature of space-time. The most unique feature of these wormholes is that they could provide relatively easy means of travelling to distant regions of space, or even travelling backwards in time. The problem with a macroscopic wormhole is that it is not a static structure. What that means is that the wormhole can expand from a zero throat radius to maximum radius and back within few moments of time, so fast than even light cannot enter it. In order to maintain the maximum throat radius of the wormhole, it would need to be 'fed' with matter containing negative energy density. Such matter does not exist to our knowledge and is often referred to as exotic matter. Although we do not know how to obtain exotic matter, we have several indications that such matter may exist. For example, between two metal plates there can be field fluctuations that have negative energy density relative to field fluctuations in a free vacuum. Evaporating black holes also show negative energy density. But to obtain a finite amount of negative energy density matter is a far road ahead in terms of experimentation. However, just recently a new light has been shed on this topic. According to a Russian theorist by the name of Sergei Krasnikov, a wormhole may large and stable enough to conduct intergalatic travelling. He came up with an equation that shows that his wormholes can create its own abundant supply of exotic matter, allowing the wormhole to feed off this and making it possible for entering and exiting. But, this is still up for discussion as the theory is still fresh and many physicists are working on it to get some possible progress or to be able to refute the claim. With this in mind, we can understand that this technology may be possible in the future

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Now, about the boat, when you're moving 10mph, and river is moving 20mph, you are moving 30mph relative to the earth. But, that only works for low speeds. As you get near the speed of light, speeds don't add up linearly anymore, and c+c does not equal 2c, instead, c+c=c (c=speed of light). So if one object is moving away from you towards the east at the speed of light, and another one is moving away towards west at the same speed, although it looks like to you that they're moving away from each other at twice the speed of light, each one sees both you and the other object moving away from it at the speed of light. That's because time flows differently on all 3 systems.

frame of reference
hard concept to grasp is the CONSTANT velocity of light regardless of the frame of reference.


But a question I was wondering about. If travelling at light speed would halt time to zero for that indefinite period of travel, would it take no time at all for light to reach its object?
If so..why do we have the the units "light-years"..obviously referring to the distance in which light travels per year. Wouldnt that value be infinite?

Sorry about the science lecture..im getting CTS now

toodles

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Travelling at light speed slows time to a halt only for the traveller. The rest of the world still functions normally. So while it seems to the traveller who's going at light speed that no time passed at all, the time flow hasn't been altered for the outside observer who sees the traveller's speed as finite and equal to c.

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1+1=10

back to the article itself
here is a piece on the story

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...-627115,00.html


and do you know what the weekly world news is? it is a tabloid. if you think this may be remotely true just look at their web page and see some of the other stories they are reporting.

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/

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Wow this is a realy cool topic..... Id rather see post with this kinda stuff instead of war politics bs or dot threads for that matter..

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"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

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Travelling at light speed slows time to a halt only for the traveller. The rest of the world still functions normally. So while it seems to the traveller who's going at light speed that no time passed at all, the time flow hasn't been altered for the outside observer who sees the traveller's speed as finite and equal to c.

ahh, makes sense thanks man

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Wow this is a realy cool topic..... Id rather see post with this kinda stuff instead of war politics bs or dot threads for that matter..

I second that

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Mack & DrUg_Tit0 id love to have a smoke with u guys

yes, it is refreshing to see some intellectual posts rather than the likes of a dot thread (18 pages long) even if i don't understand it all


you guys study physics and maths at college?

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A trance tune sampling Last of the Mohicans?
ID s13 here
It's good, seriously

thanks to Louk
Gizeh - Feelin Good

are there any theories to what happens when u enter a black hole? what is the different betweeen a black hole and a "wormhole gate"?

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Thank You and Goodnight

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Originally posted by djSlain are there any theories to what happens when u enter a black hole?

according to general relativity, gravitation severely modifies space and time near a black hole. as the event horizon is approached from outside, time slows down relative to that of distant observers, stopping completely on the horizon. once a body has contracted within Schwarzschelt (sp) radius, it would *theoretically* collapse to a singularity (dimensionless object of infinite density)

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Originally posted by djSlain what is the different betweeen a black hole and a "wormhole gate"?

some astronomers believe that when u travel through a black hole, u go through a tunnel callde a wormhole where u are changed changed into pure energy (according to einstein.) then u come out of a so-called white hole. if a white hole exists, it should be asmall body in space that sends out a lot of pure energy. other astronomers believe a worm hole is a portal to other univreses. they believe that matter changes going through a black hole and creates a new universe with its own spacetime continiuum.

in other words worm hole = tunnel to a white hole at some other point in spacetime

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Last edited by Noisician on Apr-07-2003 at 03:14