Taken from mixshare.com

quote:

now, the goal is to find the best sounding chord such that it's subdominant and dominant chords also sound in key. one thing you can also do is sequentially play each chord while listening to the music to to determine which ones sound best, and use that as a starting point. if doing this, don't worry about distinguish between major and minor keys, just stick to one or the other.

Guys, why is it that it is necessary to find a subdominant and a dominant key? Isnt it enough to just find if the track belong to a major or a minor chord?

Root note + 3rd key + 7th key ( to form a minor chord)
Root note + 4th key + 7th key ( to form a major chord)


elliot

ok i have a few questions.

1) is this the only way finding the keys? having a keyboard or something and aving some musical theory in your head?

2) do you start with a key and finish with it? if so, then you lose in track selection.

3) do you change your key as the set flows to play different tracks, or something?

4) anyways how can i start doing it my self?

thanx for helping!
btw, can anyone post a harmonic mixing, and the worst (in terms of key) mixing? i mean just samples of transitions, this could help

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younathan wrote on Yesterday 23:54: hey sebjr, i am just starting out with this harmonic mixing stuff...and i came across your post and you say you play a lot of prog house...which is exactly like me...so, i was wondering if there are any source that have a database or such of keyed records. also, how many have you keyed already? is it easy/hard? Thanks in advanced, beny

hey dude

yeah i have a few tips that will be useful for ya

1) prog is less melodic then trance so its slightly harder to key, you really have to listen for the bassline and key by that

2) you need a keyboard...those software keyboards are crap...honestly you need to be able to fiddle around, and those software ones are really frustrating, more trouble then its worth. get a cheap 49 key midi keyboard

3) get mixmeister 6....it keys all your mp3s for you, which you can then double check using the keyboard if you want to use it to key your vinyl just record a 2 min sample of your vinyl and then get mixmeister to key that. it is VERY accurate. i am going through and double checking my cds now, and it is 95% accurate. i find it helpful to go through and double check, because it helps improve your 'natural key detection'

4) learn everything on this page [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
it is very helpful, keep it in the background for reference while keying

it is good to work backwards from mixmeister....find out what key it has auto detected, and then test it out using keyboard...this way you can see how mixmeister is getting the key.

after a while im going through them quite quickly and i *know* they are in key because i have done a few mixes and they are very seamless you'll also notice that you have probably grouped alot of your records by key anyway....this is your natural key selection working...although it might not be 100% its great that this takes the guess work out....

hope this helps

cheers

seb

well... its funny....

mixmeister is known to be not that accurate. version 5 had that problem.

i just downloaded and installed version 6... and it still seems to be inaccurate

Motocycle as the rush comes G&D mix seem to be detected as a G#m ... but according to harmonics.defined.org ... it shows as Bm


comments anyone?

Hmm I don't have that prob...its very accurate for me. Dont have that tune though....test it with a keyboard?

hi.

so how do you use that feature? ... i just let it play for a couple of seconds in mix meister....then it shows the key in the top left corner.


what track did you find it to be accurate? ... perhaps i shall try that same track and see it for myself

This is the best thread ever! As a DJ I felt I needed to improve my programming and mixing. After skimming through this thread and finding the key's in which some of my tracks are produced in, I can definetly notice a different when my mixes are harmonic. They sound so much more smoother and cleaner. Also, I'm mixing tracks together that I would never think of, for example Re:Locate - Typhoon (C Minor) into P.O.S. Remember (G Minor).

However, i'm still lost when it comes to what element of the track the key is. Is it the melody, percussion etc? Hopefully you understand what I meant by that

Thanks to everyone who has posted anything educational in this thread :d

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1) 16 Bit Lolitas - Nobody Seems To Care
2) Roger Martinez - Kaleidoscopic
3) Ormatie - She Very
4) 16 Bit Lolitas - Murder Weapon
5) Alex Dolby - Cairo

Hey Raveandindie,
I've never used this mixmeister, but I can assure you 100% that Motorcycle is not G#m! It IS Bm!
I saw your bit about finding chords, you have 1st, 4th and 7th down for a major and 1, 3 and 4 for a minor??? Don't know where you got this from? It is always 1st, 3rd and 5th for any normal minor or major chord, i.e. A minor uses A, C and E, which are the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes in the scale. A major uses A, C# and E, similarly the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes in the scale.
Keep it simple lads!

p.s. I saw someone said prog is hard to key? It is easy! All you get is one bass note going on which 99 times out of 100 is the key!What could be simpler?

quote:

Originally posted by raveanddie hi. so how do you use that feature? ... i just let it play for a couple of seconds in mix meister....then it shows the key in the top left corner. what track did you find it to be accurate? ... perhaps i shall try that same track and see it for myself

Heheh...sure thing. Don't have much trance unfortunately. Do you have Vision of you - Cabala?

"p.s. I saw someone said prog is hard to key? It is easy! All you get is one bass note going on which 99 times out of 100 is the key!What could be simpler?"
Raveboy I personally find it easeir to key trance because it has a lot of melodic highs, which I think my ears are more tuned into to (eg I can tell an 'off key' much more easily)...I am getting better with the bass only ones though

hmmm .. .. wait a minute...

do you use the bass or the snare to key the tunes?

quote:

Originally posted by raveanddie well... its funny.... mixmeister is known to be not that accurate. version 5 had that problem. i just downloaded and installed version 6... and it still seems to be inaccurate Motocycle as the rush comes G&D mix seem to be detected as a G#m ... but according to harmonics.defined.org ... it shows as Bm comments anyone?

The version that I play is definately a Bm. And Mixmeister as far as I know does still get it wrong too often to be considered a good tool.
The idea is great but does not some work in my opinion.

Cheers
Nem

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Lads, the only way to key something is by doing it yourself. Forget all these other ways. Get a keyboard or a guitar or something. The first bass note tends to be the key, not always, but most times. Trance is very very simple musically, in terms of chords etc., so there are only about 3 or 4 in total once the tune gets going. But as I said listen to the start and the end, and most records will have one bass note that is constant, and will vary abit once the tune gets going.