quote:

Originally posted by Az but it's giving the music he likes a bad name, so surely he has a right to bitch about it

well i think its a completely different kinda music all together, its not exactly getting in the way of his music, i mean people are entitled to their opinions i respect that but i dont see the point in all this hatred, its just music.. people shouldnt make it so personal and start hating people over it... seriously... people need to grow up a little bit.

by the way, Durrrty... thanks for the kind comment, i expect you are the only one in this thread who does like it as it might well be classed as Mc Prog.

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Fair points speedracer_mec, but this is coming from somebody who has Leama & Moor and Ogzur Can in his list of favorite producers?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle like everyone else has said, if you dont like it then dont listen to it. its quite simple...

This isn't meant personally, or as a rection against McProg or anything, just a general thought I just had:

What does not listening to it gonna help? Me not listening won't cease the problem to exist, nor will it diminish any effect it has on the scene. It's just like ignoring a fight between your parents. Going to your room and cranking up the volume of your stereo doesn't make the fight downstairs disppear, and it certainly won't miraculously erase all the pain and wounds it causes...

So yeah, I personally think McProg has an influence on "the scene", kinda in a way like Eurodance has an influence on the "real trance"-scene. It's great to introduce willing listeners to a new kind of music, but with the meaning of those listeners to move on, explore further, and see beyond the crappy stuf that got them into it in the first place. I'm not calling McProg-artists crappy here, but you know what I mean, there's just a little difference between McProg and the real deal. Once again I compare it with Eurodance: Barthezz - On The Move, for example, isn't necessarily a bad song, but almost every self-respecting "real trance"-fan won't call it "pure proper trance"...

And what do real trance-heads complain about? Cowboy-hat wearing breezah's that think Lasgo or that Barthezz track is the culmination of trance, and Dj Jean is the best turntablewizard the world has ever seen. Such people are called "ignorant fools", and are strongly advised to "look beyond that shit, and find the true trance!". Once again, same thing with McProg IMO. Sure, it's good to introduce people to a new style, but it should function as a stepstone to the "real" prog, somewhat like a bridge crossing 2 genres. But lately it just seems that a lot of people are standing still at the middle of the bridge, while thinking that they've already reached the other side completely...

So basically, I wonder what this "If you don't like it, don't listen to it" attitude is gonna help? It's clear that there is some kind of problem with McProg, the simple fact that this discussion is being held and doesn't seem to end proves that quite easily. But "not listening if you don't like it" will just make you ignore the problem, and what does that help? It will only make the gap between McProg-lovers and pure Progheads get bigger and bigger...
And I'm not gonna try to offer a simple yet genius solution to it all, cause I frankly don't think there is any (just like there really isn't any in the Eurodance vs Trance debate). But you could at least be aware of the problem and acknowledge it. IMO, using the "If you don't like it, don't listen to it" argument, is just as constructive as saying "McProg sucks adn so do you for listening to it"...



As I said, this isn't anything personal, just a general annoyance about this comment being one of the most used on musicboards, but in fact being kinda bullsh*t IMO...

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www.dj-vega.net

it doesn't really matter

quote:

Originally posted by Misiorowski Fair points speedracer_mec, but this is coming from somebody who has Leama & Moor and Ogzur Can in his list of favorite producers?

I think Ozgur Can has the capability of producing some fine records
as do Leama and Moor, but by their own admission, they're not into it anymore, and churning out the tunes for bucks.....

quote:

Originally posted by Jasperovitsj

Very true.

However, I do think the listeners do "suck", so to speak (yeah, my own words, I know. :P). I mean, seriously people; when was the last time you actually put some effort into finding good music? All you do is sit back and listen to ASOT/GDJB, then go on and on about the tracks that are played on there, when there's much better stuff out there.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike If I wanted to listen to a DJ bang out shit as weak sounding as Andy Moor / Markus Schulz etc. i'd go listen to Armin van Buuren. Nothing fucks me off more than a fan that thinks a DJ can do no wrong. There is a lot of good music out there. How some people can be so easily pleased is beyond my comprehension.

quote:

Originally posted by Ory All you do is sit back and listen to ASOT/GDJB, then go on and on about the tracks that are played on there, when there's much better stuff out there.

I always hope(d) that ASOT can figure as a stepstone for people to discover that better stuff, at least when Armin's playing prog. For instance, when people open their favourite filesharing program to find the newest, yet already overhyped remix by Leama and/or Moor, I really hope they accidentally stumble upon Melodica, download it, and afterwards think "Damn, this track is actually much much better than their remix for Starkid or Brian Eno I thought was the best prog could ever get, I wonder if there's more of that kind of prog I could find..."

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quote:

Originally posted by Misiorowski Fair points speedracer_mec, but this is coming from somebody who has Leama & Moor and Ogzur Can in his list of favorite producers?

Yea they Were:

Furry Nipples-Surrounding Quality played By Shiloh
Leama and Moor Remix oF zoo York, melodica,
AndyMoor Vs Mic Burns- You cant control me --originally produced 2years ago is hitting the underground prog scene.

These producers have now been commercialized by the likes of Perry Oneil and such

Last edited by speedracer_mec on Dec-21-2004 at 02:30

quote:

Originally posted by Durrrtysouth And as the thread starter, I think that was your only motive to stir up as much shit as you can. Why dont you just give it a rest. BTW: if it wasnt for Markus/Armin (GDJB/ASOT) Derek Howell would still be unknown.

LOL? He still is relatively unknown and produces top of the line tunes. And Proton Radio and word of mouth should be given credit for his rising as a top notch Producer not...Markus "mcProg" S.

Im sure Derek howell wouldnt ever want his work played by those cheeseheads.


Thats why he signed his latest releases to Bedrock and not armada

Last edited by speedracer_mec on Dec-21-2004 at 02:21

quote:

Originally posted by Ory If the producer sucks, then wouldn't the listener suck too? Think about it.

So wrong! This took me seconds to respond to u.
Producer != DJ
Producing sucks != DJing sucks
There will be listeners of that certain producer.
There will also be listeners of that certain DJ.
But the listeners might be different.

Now,
If the post sucks, then wouldn't the one who posted suck too? Think about it.

*Im speaking in this thread not b'c i favour 1 of prog 'styles'. I actually like listening to all kinds of them

quote:

Originally posted by Plastick So wrong! This took me seconds to respond to u. Producer != DJ Producing sucks != DJing sucks There will be listeners of that certain producer. There will also be listeners of that certain DJ. But the listeners might be different. Now, If the post sucks, then wouldn't the one who posted suck too? Think about it. *Im speaking in this thread not b'c i favour 1 of prog 'styles'. I actually like listening to all kinds of them

that made no sense whatsoever

quote:

Originally posted by Az that made no sense whatsoever

Same goes to what he is trying to say

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Originally posted by stevebutabi so you're saying guys like markus schultz are ruining progressive by pulling good prog producers into their cheesy sound? i don't know man... have you heard any sasha or sander k sets recently? they're good as ever, regardless of the presence of 'mcprog'... i haven't noticed a dip in progressive quality at all since markus schultz has showed up. if you don't like markus's sound than just don't listen to it... it's not like his sound has been affecting the music that you and i love.

Good point there. What makes me frustrated is that the people here started with bashing the kinda sounds asot/gdjb bring to edm and went on to bash the people who enjoy the the asot/gdjb sounds.